calmex
Member
Stalin's executioner is often mentioned in articles on the Katyn forest massacre. It's where I knew about him from. Uncle Joe didn't run a nice regime.
9mm seems inferior to me. Why?
- Thread starter fallhunter
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Stalin's executioner is often mentioned in articles on the Katyn forest massacre. It's where I knew about him from. Uncle Joe didn't run a nice regime.
Maze 686
US Veteran
Don't know where you get your Law Enforcement Ammo, but every department that I know of gets theirs right off the self from distributers. The same place the gun shops get theirs from.
Really? Ever seen 9mm ammo that you cannot find anywhere other than LE distributors? Plus, have you used any .40 that everyone bitches about the government is buying up, like from Federal? I can tell you this, it ain't the same ammo. All the HD ammo these companies sell civilians certainly don't feel like the ammo I've gotten to shoot over the last few months. Also, see how easy it is to find the exact same LE ammo at regular retailers or gun shops UNLESS, they are a LE distributor.
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Some things I have learned through the years is that if I stopped ten successive rhino charges with one respective shot each with a 9mm then it would still not be enough to convince some it's a good cartridge. On the other hand, if I showed a die hard .45 ACP lover, who has sucked up every Legion Hall BS story all of his life, ten successive examples of a .45 ACP not stopping someone they would dismiss it out of hand because "my Uncle Ralph killed 50 Krauts in the Big One with a 1911." Never mind that Ralph was a cook stateside.
All I know is what I know & what I've seen. Having said that I would take a 9mm stuffed full of 115 gr. +p+ JHP's over any .45 any day & every day. It works.
All I know is what I know & what I've seen. Having said that I would take a 9mm stuffed full of 115 gr. +p+ JHP's over any .45 any day & every day. It works.
Stopping power
How many forum members have actually seen someone shot with a handgun, 1st hand?
I have. Big diff between ballistic gel tests and the real thing.
Bigger hole, more blood loss, more shock. Read all you want. Nobody knows anything with out having the experience.
How many forum members have actually seen someone shot with a handgun, 1st hand?
I have. Big diff between ballistic gel tests and the real thing.
Bigger hole, more blood loss, more shock. Read all you want. Nobody knows anything with out having the experience.
jadek669
Member
I do love this kind of post. 90% BS and 10 % fact. Who gives a rats butt what caliber you think sucks. You shoot what you have and be happy you have it to defend yourself and family. Just hit where you are aiming, and I doubt there will be much of a problem.. IMHO
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
Last one I saw was shot five times with .32 ACP. The shooter started at his crotch and worked north. Taking him to surgery was merely a formality.
To each his own, and it seems most people have strong opinions about comparative caliber effectiveness. I'm a +P .38 Special throwback myself. But I know well-placed shots from anything from .22LR to .45 ACP will render someone null and void. I just happen to trust my .38's and my ability to shoot them.
Name your poison, boys. I'm out of this one. I'm sure a similar thread will be launched soon. Probably another one about .380.
Vulcan Bob
Member
Revisiting the post to see the latest commentary and a old incident came to mind, there was a killing in Bedford Pa, oh back around 1977 and the lead investigator was from our barracks, it turns out a married couple was in an argument and the wife decided to end the altercation with a shot to the chest of the man from a .25 ACP. Well it was a one shot stop and near instantaneous death, the tiny little bullet went through the heart, exited clean through, down the hall, through a closet door and was found lodged in clothing inside. I asked the Trooper, a .25 ACP did all that!??! Yup it did. Now does that mean the .25 ACP is the ultimate defensive caliber of choice, of course not. Once again shot placement and a rather unexpected performance from an anemic cartridge unfortunately did the job. Out here in real life I guess it really comes down to what you are comfortable with and are proficient with.
Blood loss and shock don't mean a thing. Immediate incapacitation is desired. Blood loss and shock can be too slow.
Look at the many people that were shot in the heart only to run 40-50 yards before falling down and dying?
ChattanoogaPhil
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This guy confirmed what I have believed for a long time.
Hit the perp once or twice with a 380ACP to 45ACP and they will generally stop what they are doing.
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
Hit the perp once or twice with a 380ACP to 45ACP and they will generally stop what they are doing.
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
Glad you read it closely. Half the time people on a Forum look at a section of the study and completely fail to see the sizable increase in failure to stop the aggression percentages once the caliber goes below .380. Then they post, this guy says a .25 acp is as effective as an .45 acp, which is not what he's saying.
OP
fallhunter
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I have done a ton of research and so on. I have actually found that I am very fond of the 9mm.
Sent from my VS870 4G using Tapatalk
Sent from my VS870 4G using Tapatalk
Doug M.
Member
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » FBI & 9mm. As is the modern trend, supported by all the research, even the FBI (not at all a cutting edge agency in most ways) is going to be shifting to a 9mm duty round.
9mm
I carried the 9mm as a duty round for 18 of my 34 years in service....in several pistol platforms and in the MP-5......bullet design has come a long way since the 70's when I first started shooting the 9mm......bullet placement is critical as it is with any caliber.....today's modern hollow points offer very good terminal ballistics..I have tested several modern hollow point loads in ballistic gelatin...and most of them are quite impressive....my EDC pistol is a hi cap 9mm......I have seen quite a few post mortems where 9mm JHP's were involved and I have faith in the round.....
I carried the 9mm as a duty round for 18 of my 34 years in service....in several pistol platforms and in the MP-5......bullet design has come a long way since the 70's when I first started shooting the 9mm......bullet placement is critical as it is with any caliber.....today's modern hollow points offer very good terminal ballistics..I have tested several modern hollow point loads in ballistic gelatin...and most of them are quite impressive....my EDC pistol is a hi cap 9mm......I have seen quite a few post mortems where 9mm JHP's were involved and I have faith in the round.....
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I haven't read every post in this thread. Maybe some things to consider.
The Germans lost two wars using 9mm.
When using Handguns the bigger the hole the better.
Shot placement.
How big a gun can you handle and put the bullet in the proper place?
Steve C
Member
When I first got into shooting in the 70's I was young and read the gun magazines and just about anything else about guns, no internet you know. The 9mm was much maligned as being an ineffective round, probably as much because it was more European and because it wasn't used much by law enforcement so good defensive ammo hadn't been developed for it as much as the .38 and .357 mag. I bought and would shoot Colt .357 mags and Colt 1911's. Glad I did because the value of those guns has made the purchase of them a dandy investment.
Later as law enforcement converted to hi capacity 9mm's to fight the gangs armed with the same in the late 70's and early 80's all of a sudden the 9mm wasn't so denigrated by the gun writers and better ammo and more actual experience proved the 9mm to be better than the .38 spl commonly carried by the police a few years earlier.
I bought a few 9's and enjoyed shooting them, esp. with the cheap ammo coming in from China, and the former Communist countries. The defensive ammo got better and I came to the realization that the 9mm was every bit as good as the .45 for defensive use in anything I would likely come up against and the extra rounds in the mag where more comfort than the bugger slug so while I still shoot the .45's and the .357 and .41 mag revolvers for hunting, fun and at targets I carry my 9's and even a .380 Kel Tec for concealed carry SD and only on a rare occasions drag out a snub nose .38 or 1911 for nostalgia.
Age may not have made me much wiser but it has made me more accepting of adequacy in using something a bit less than maybe the absolute most deadly caliber and round in return for more comfort and concealment.
Later as law enforcement converted to hi capacity 9mm's to fight the gangs armed with the same in the late 70's and early 80's all of a sudden the 9mm wasn't so denigrated by the gun writers and better ammo and more actual experience proved the 9mm to be better than the .38 spl commonly carried by the police a few years earlier.
I bought a few 9's and enjoyed shooting them, esp. with the cheap ammo coming in from China, and the former Communist countries. The defensive ammo got better and I came to the realization that the 9mm was every bit as good as the .45 for defensive use in anything I would likely come up against and the extra rounds in the mag where more comfort than the bugger slug so while I still shoot the .45's and the .357 and .41 mag revolvers for hunting, fun and at targets I carry my 9's and even a .380 Kel Tec for concealed carry SD and only on a rare occasions drag out a snub nose .38 or 1911 for nostalgia.
Age may not have made me much wiser but it has made me more accepting of adequacy in using something a bit less than maybe the absolute most deadly caliber and round in return for more comfort and concealment.
SgtLumpy
Member
Silly Germans. They figured out how to build fabulous roads, watches and automobiles. You'd think they'd figure out that if they'd only have built their handgun projectile one tenth of an inch larger in diameter and 400 fps slower they could have ruled the world.
Sgt Lumpy
