A Humpback hammer question...
- Thread starter RWJ
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It's all good.
Engine49guy
Member
I recall seeing a K22-40 with an older style Outdoorsman long action hammer but we never established if the triggers were interchangeable between the K22-40 and K22 OD.
Seems possible they accomplished the shorter K22 action with just a new short throw hammer using the existing trigger design especially if K and N frame triggers were interchangeable.
OP
4 so far in this thread
Well, it seems like jsfrick, strawhat,and rburg account for 4 of them, so they must be more prevalent than I thought for pre-war K frame centerfires; any guesses as to percentages? 0.05%, 1 %, 10%? I just haven't seen very many.
Well, it seems like jsfrick, strawhat,and rburg account for 4 of them, so they must be more prevalent than I thought for pre-war K frame centerfires; any guesses as to percentages? 0.05%, 1 %, 10%? I just haven't seen very many.
rburg
Member
Another of our posters, Bengalfan, just acquired an M&P target with a HBH. If I recall correctly, poster Memphis bought a small pile of HBHs a year or two ago. My buddy John, now deceased, found one at Tulsa and bought it. He had another guy run him down and buy it for a nice profit. The point is, they are out and about. Just rare.
As for Bruce's question, S&W did some strange things during that time period. According to David Carroll, he acquired a prewar K32 that was never completed. When he called Roy, he was told it was really a K22 because every gun on that double page was blocked off as K22s. But none was booked out of the factory. Sounds to me like they had a bunch of unfinished guns just sitting around to be finished.
I've only been collecting these things for the last 40 or so years. Its easy to surprise me, but I'm at the point where I expect to be surprised. I don't think its out of the question at all to discover an outdoorsman nearly finished that just got numbered and then shipped. I only wonder what the letter will say.
As for Bruce's question, S&W did some strange things during that time period. According to David Carroll, he acquired a prewar K32 that was never completed. When he called Roy, he was told it was really a K22 because every gun on that double page was blocked off as K22s. But none was booked out of the factory. Sounds to me like they had a bunch of unfinished guns just sitting around to be finished.
I've only been collecting these things for the last 40 or so years. Its easy to surprise me, but I'm at the point where I expect to be surprised. I don't think its out of the question at all to discover an outdoorsman nearly finished that just got numbered and then shipped. I only wonder what the letter will say.
StrawHat
Member
Memphis
Member
Yes, I too love that hammer. I've got 9 guns with'em but only 5 are K frames. Three .22 Outdoorsmans and two 1905 4th chg Targets.
I got lucky a few years ago and bought a batch of them (well 3) K Frame Humpbacks off of E**y. Then I found two more single auctions for K frame rimfire humpbacks. I've since sold all the non attached hammers. Wish I still had a few though.
Personally, I think a need a RM (possible a KCPD gun) with a good ole grooved Humpback to round out my collection. A man cannot get too many of them.
Roger
I got lucky a few years ago and bought a batch of them (well 3) K Frame Humpbacks off of E**y. Then I found two more single auctions for K frame rimfire humpbacks. I've since sold all the non attached hammers. Wish I still had a few though.
Personally, I think a need a RM (possible a KCPD gun) with a good ole grooved Humpback to round out my collection. A man cannot get too many of them.
Roger
OP
Zombie thread, arise!
10 years ago, I posted about this 1905 4th target model with a humpback hammer; (never let it be said that I rush into things
), but in July 2025, I finally broke down and requested a letter, which reveals that this gun left the Stockbridge plant on October 16, 1940 with a 6" barrel, a Humpback Hammer, AND a grip Adapter, headed for Folsom Arms in NYC. In my initial post, I identified it as going back for major work in 9/75, which was a typo; it should have said 9/65. Judging by the refinish stamps, it was probably for a new barrel, since it now sports a 5" with a non-barreled extractor rod to go with the beautiful bluing and an unserialed barrel. Unfortunately, the service records fail to show what work was done, as happens sometimes. Now I just need to find correct grips AND a K grip adapter (I know, fat chance on THAT happening)......
10 years ago, I posted about this 1905 4th target model with a humpback hammer; (never let it be said that I rush into things
), but in July 2025, I finally broke down and requested a letter, which reveals that this gun left the Stockbridge plant on October 16, 1940 with a 6" barrel, a Humpback Hammer, AND a grip Adapter, headed for Folsom Arms in NYC. In my initial post, I identified it as going back for major work in 9/75, which was a typo; it should have said 9/65. Judging by the refinish stamps, it was probably for a new barrel, since it now sports a 5" with a non-barreled extractor rod to go with the beautiful bluing and an unserialed barrel. Unfortunately, the service records fail to show what work was done, as happens sometimes. Now I just need to find correct grips AND a K grip adapter (I know, fat chance on THAT happening)......Attachments
Engine49guy
Member
Rize Lazarus !
forgot about this post,
The 5" barrel is interesting with no serial, is it cut for a barrel extractor? guessing the barrel began life with a half penny M&P front site and was milled to accept the taller pinned target blade?
Never did get around to trying various hammer trigger combinations on my pre war K22's.
Installed a HBH on a K22 OD that needed a new hammer years ago, I like it.
Have a pre war K grip adapter on one of my OD's, also have a set of pre war Magnas that someone sanded down inside to fit the grip adapter which is interesting since normally the adapter only works with service stocks ( note you could also use it if paired with Model 12 stocks on a std K frame since they are thinner inside as well).
forgot about this post,
The 5" barrel is interesting with no serial, is it cut for a barrel extractor? guessing the barrel began life with a half penny M&P front site and was milled to accept the taller pinned target blade?
Never did get around to trying various hammer trigger combinations on my pre war K22's.
Installed a HBH on a K22 OD that needed a new hammer years ago, I like it.
Have a pre war K grip adapter on one of my OD's, also have a set of pre war Magnas that someone sanded down inside to fit the grip adapter which is interesting since normally the adapter only works with service stocks ( note you could also use it if paired with Model 12 stocks on a std K frame since they are thinner inside as well).
I held a first model k22 OD that had a later 22/40 hammer put on it. Looking back now I should have bought it in case it may have been some type of prototype. About a month or two ago I saw another one for sale on an auction site. It was a Pa one,Morphys or Pa Auction. Sadly I deleted it after seeing what it brought.
Engine49guy
Member
Id be willing to bet a shiney penny that the hammer trigger from a pre war K22 OD will swap out with a K22/40 and visa versa.
The two other differences are of course the then new micrometer click rear site and taller front site blade.
The fs blade should be pinned in the same, the big question will be if the rear sight is a straight swap or is the milling different?
Of course the pre war micrometer sight is unique to the K22/40 model and is smooth compared to the post war version which is grooved.
My suspicion with zero evidence is it will swap which would mean the frames are identical if proven true.
I agree. Also I recall Modified has a 22/40 with a Humpback hammer on it. Also a few other mods
Masterpiece
Member
Engine49guy,
What year's that Shiny Penny??...Ha!!-Ha!! Reason I ask is you're right on The Hammers & Triggers do interchange!! Fact is...We got into a discussion many years ago about that very same thing...So to appease the "Doubting Thomas's" that believed they wouldn't...I took a couple of mine apart & posted photos to prove they would!!
That said...Now if I can find the Thread after all these years the discussion was in I'll post the Link for you to look at!! Also to the rest of you guys that may remember that discussion...Any help would be greatly appreciated given it always takes me forever it seems to find Old Threads because I don't think the Forum's Search Engine likes me...Ha!!-Ha!!
Engine49guy
Member
2004 new zinc penny,
I would never bet a real copper penny those things are worth like $100.00...
Now to compare rear sight unit mounting cuts!
Would enjoy seeing that thread! Now when you interchanged the hammers did you have to also use the mated trigger?
I guess it's a round about way of saying I wonder if a 22/40 hammer mates correctly to a trigger fitted for long action.
Masterpiece
Member
paplinker,
I believe at the time I tried it both ways if memory serves...And yes both functioned just fine!!
I suppose now that I've gotten everyone interested again...Guess it's best I get lookin' for that Old Thread!! Also as a heads-up...Might take me while to find it again!!
Truth be told...I was hoping one of the Other Members here recalled it to help out!! Reason being as I stated earlier...I don't think the Forum's Search engine likes me much because I can't ever put in the Right Keywords to find what I'm looking for!!
OP
I, too, surmise that they simply took a 5" barrel with rounded front sight blade, milled and pinned the Patridge, and installed it. The barrel has no patent markings on top, nor is it relieved for the barrel knob extractor, which means they simply used a standard right hand thread rod from stock. I've enclosed the sheets which came with the letter, showing that the Humpback hammer and the grip adapter were purchased at the same time. It's a shame that the records were incomplete, as this was definitely ordered a target gun, based on the accessories.
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