a question for LEO's

[rebs081]

To start with I am not in anyway shape or form saying anything against LEO's. God Bless them for the jobs they do.

Do law enforcement officers have to abide by gun laws the same as non LEO's ? I mean in the instance of an AWB placed on AR 15's, if a working or retired LEO has his own personal AR 15 how are you officers effected ? If it came to a confiscation or buy back would you have to turn yours in also ?

I know LEO's and retired law enforcement that belong to and shoot at our local gun club that have personal AR's with collapsible stocks, flash hiders etc that are banned in our state. The local gun shops have separate law enforcement models that only law enforcement officers can buy. Just show your ID and you can buy one. Is this just in New York State ? I am not in anyway against this, just curious.

 

[David LaPell]

I know that I have to abide by all the laws, in our county we are not even allowed to put guns on the badge as in some other places. As far as AR-15's, don't have one. I am not sure about the guys who do on our road patrol. I know a few years back the city of Albany found out that several of their cops had purchased full auto weapons through a gun dealer, not sure how but he got fined pretty heavily according to the news. I know they had bought some MP-5's and a few other guns. All the cops had to surrender those guns and I think more than one lost their jobs over it. Personally, cops should have to abide by the same laws. I have been a CCW (not so rare as one would believe in parts of NY) since I was nineteen, but only in LE since I was 28 and I have always kept to the laws on the books since it is so easy to lose your pistol permit if you screw up. With cops and LEO's having to follow the same rules, there is less of the "us and them" attitude that I am sorry to say is being bred among some of the younger guys in the field. I have had a couple of discussions with some of the new cops that I know, and I hope with time some more common sense sets in because there are some out there who think civilians owning guns is a bad idea and they do look at them as "everyone else". This unfortunately is how some of the new training is, which is more military in some regards than law enforcement. I know when I first started it was more common sense orientated and when I got to actually work they said what ever you were taught in the book to throw out the window because parts of going by the book won't work in real life. So as to your original question, I know where I live and work the cops at least in my county have to follow the rules, not sure about other places. Every department is different and so are the rules.
What I do know is that a "police officer" can walk in from some departments and show their badge and get high cap magazines and whatever they want, where as a "peace officer" has to have something on department letter head. It gets confusing because as a Corrections Officer I am a peace officer and would need department letterhead which ours will not do for us, but at the same time some gun shops have sold high caps to our guys which from what I have been told even by the local BATFE agent (I have my dealer paperwork I still need to fill out someday to get my FFL and have asked some questions) is illegal. I personally if I ever do get my FFL plan to stay right away from them entirely. It is not that I have anything against them, there are just too many rules with them here in NY and I would rather not make a mistake that would cost me a big fine or worse.

 

[rebs081]

David
Thank you for your rply, I appreciate it as I was curious about the subject of LEO's and their private guns.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
At my Agency M-16s, M-14s, and MP-5s were issued Department weapons. To be issued the Officer had to qualify and keep qualifications current.
In the County Agency a lot of the Deputies had purchased their personal AR-15s. In this Agency the "Desk Bound Commandos"had the best weapons, cars, etc. The Patrol Officers (aka "Real Cops) had the cast offs from the "Higher Ups".
I expect if and when the "High Capacity" magazines ban takes effect, Cops like everyone else will suddenly not have any.
Jimmy

 

[GatorFarmer]

The old AWB exempted police officers and you could keep yourr privately purchased weapons when you retired.

This time who knows.

They will need someone in the guard towers at the camps. The view from there is better.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I believe the wording in various laws is "in performance of their duties" which means when working as an officer, they can have 30-round mags and collapsible stocks and other AWB features. This might depend on the state they are in too.

Now, if they go home and buy their own AR-15 for range use ...then same laws as everyone else applies.


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[J. W.]

The short answer is it varies by state. Here in WV there is no difference between what a LEO can walk into a store and buy vs Joe Citizen. Only real difference is a LEO can possess department issued full-auto weapons. Joe Citizen would have to acquire the proper class III paperwork to own the same weapon. LEO's also have fewer restrictions on where we can carry, on or off duty.

As far as a new AWB goes, you're guess is as good as mine. If the gun hating liberals in this country have their way none of us will be able to own a personal firearm, cop or not...


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[rebs081]

Thank you guys for your replies.

 

[NYlakesider]

I know that I have to abide by all the laws, in our county we are not even allowed to put guns on the badge as in some other places. As far as AR-15's, don't have one. I am not sure about the guys who do on our road patrol.

I know a few years back the city of Albany found out that several of their cops had purchased full auto weapons through a gun dealer,

not sure how but he got fined pretty heavily according to the news. I know they had bought some MP-5's and a few other guns. All the cops had to surrender those guns and I think more than one lost their jobs over it. Personally, cops should have to abide by the same laws. I have been a CCW (not so rare as one would believe in parts of NY) since I was nineteen, but only in LE since I was 28 and I have always kept to the laws on the books since it is so easy to lose your pistol permit if you screw up. With cops and LEO's having to follow the same rules, there is less of the "us and them" attitude that I am sorry to say is being bred among some of the younger guys in the field. I have had a couple of discussions with some of the new cops that I know, and I hope with time some more common sense sets in because there are some out there who think civilians owning guns is a bad idea and they do look at them as "everyone else". This unfortunately is how some of the new training is, which is more military in some regards than law enforcement. I know when I first started it was more common sense orientated and when I got to actually work they said what ever you were taught in the book to throw out the window because parts of going by the book won't work in real life. So as to your original question, I know where I live and work the cops at least in my county have to follow the rules, not sure about other places. Every department is different and so are the rules.
What I do know is that a "police officer" can walk in from some departments and show their badge and get high cap magazines and whatever they want, where as a "peace officer" has to have something on department letter head. It gets confusing because as a Corrections Officer I am a peace officer and would need department letterhead which ours will not do for us, but at the same time some gun shops have sold high caps to our guys which from what I have been told even by the local BATFE agent (I have my dealer paperwork I still need to fill out someday to get my FFL and have asked some questions) is illegal. I personally if I ever do get my FFL plan to stay right away from them entirely. It is not that I have anything against them, there are just too many rules with them here in NY and I would rather not make a mistake that would cost me a big fine or worse.

A lot more to that story then just the stuff that hit the papers!
Dave, I knew a few of those officers and their boss, Bill Murray. I first met Bill when he was a Sgt and shot many times with him at our large local gun club. Bill was a serious gun person but at that time police could buy guns easy on their badge only. Only a signed piece of paper could get a handgun from either a dealer or person holding a CCWP. I sold a .38 to an officer I knew from the "Then" capitol police force. I knew he was a cop, he wrote me out a bill of sale, handed me the money and I took the gun and holster off my belt and we both went our separate ways. Also sold a pistol to a Albany Police officer friend of mine that way. ( Took both weapons of my CCWP & yes for legal reasons I still have those signed paper)

I had a state trooper offer me good money for my Model 29 at a game warden type road block right after the Dirty Harry movies came out and .44s were hard to find. (I posted this somewhere else in this forum a month or so on a different subject!)

Since those days things got much tighter, but there is still plenty of wiggle room in the system for favors for LEOs.

 

[DR505]

I do recall that when I purchased a personal firearm in California, as a LEO I was exempt from the requirement to have a trigger lock. That was the only "benefit" of being a LEO. Military had the same benefit.

 

[Texas Star]

In Dallas, many officers have bought AR-15 type rifles which they carry on duty, in their patrol cars. But they are semi-auto and legal for civilians to own. I think the full auto stuff used by SWAT is all issue pieces.

I got this via my barber, whose husband is a cop. I remember that when her husband bought his rifle, they went shooting with other cops. She told me that she had never before seen so many pickup trucks in one place.

This interest in carrying rifles in the vehicle was the result of a shootout in suburban Richardson, where the crooks had rifles and the cops didn't. Sometimes, experience produces positive results. Pity that they didn't think ahead, or the admins didn't, or wouldn't.

The late gun writer Skeeter Skelton owned a 1928 Thompson, which he carried in his trunk while a customs agent. His LE position made it easier for him to get it licensed, I think. But that was before Clinton was President, and he made some nasty changes in federal gun laws or regs. After that...individual...was in power, US agents could no longer buy their issued handguns on retirement. Maybe current US agents will tell us what they can carry that is still privately owned.

I know the FBI has gone Glock-a-Doodle on handguns, but think they can still buy their own, and older guns like some SIGs are still authorized for duty use. But only by older agents, many of whom are now near retirement! Maybe SIG-P-220 or other US agents will tell us more.

I know that Skeeter liked that Tommy gun!

 

[Faulkner]

The short answer is it varies by state. . . .

As it should be. If the folks in New York, or Connecticut, want to ban, limit, curtail, or otherwise impact the sale of firearms I think they should be able to do so by popular referandum or through their elected representatives. I can assure you here in Arkansas the culture is different, as are the wishes of the people, and we shouldn't be told by New Englanders what we can and can't do with firearms in our own state.

 

[mkk41]

The late gun writer Skeeter Skelton owned a 1928 Thompson, which he carried in his trunk while a customs agent. His LE position made it easier for him to get it licensed, I think. But that was before Clinton was President, and he made some nasty changes in federal gun laws or regs. After that...individual...was in power, US agents could no longer buy their issued handguns on retirement. Maybe current US agents will tell us what they can carry that is still privately owned.



I know that Skeeter liked that Tommy gun!

Ever since the National Firearms Act OF 1937 , it has been illegal to own a non NFA registered full auto or machine gun , no matter who you are. Guns were registered to whoever paid the $200 tax stamp. Many were indeed registered to law enforcement agencys and prisons that requested and received them from the US Government. Thompsons , BARs , Grease Guns , M2 Carbines , M-14s and M-16s. Gov't and Law Enforcement agencys could also buy them direct from manufacturer , or Class III dealer. They could also sell their old guns to a Class III dealer for sale/transfer to qualified individuals who paid the $200 transfer tax and had no local laws against them owning such firearms.

In 1986 , Pres. George Bush signed the Omnibus Crime bill and the BATFE made it illegal to transfer any more full-autos from Govt or Law Enforcement agencys to the civillian NFA registry.

Any full-autos carried by LEOs today are department or Gov't owned. & issued They can never be transfered into private hands.

 

[G.T. Smith]

Me too

As it should be. If the folks in New York, or Connecticut, want to ban, limit, curtail, or otherwise impact the sale of firearms I think they should be able to do so by popular referandum or through their elected representatives. I can assure you here in Arkansas the culture is different, as are the wishes of the people, and we shouldn't be told by New Englanders what we can and can't do with firearms in our own state.

Faulkner,
From what I gather, it is about the same here where I live in,SC Mo. Folks banning anything to improve their culture is a good thing, but those things may not be needed or wanted in another.
Peace,
gordon

 

[DR505]

I know the FBI has gone Glock-a-Doodle on handguns, but think they can still buy their own, and older guns like some SIGs are still authorized for duty use. But only by older agents, many of whom are now near retirement! Maybe SIG-P-220 or other US agents will tell us more.

The FBI's personally owned weapons list has been significantly shortened...no more AR-15's, no more SIG's, just Glock 21, 22, 23, 26, and 27, and Springfield 1911 if SWAT. If you got a SIG when it was authorized, it is still grandfathered. No more wheelguns are authorized as they have passed their service life.

 

[DR505]

As it should be. If the folks in New York, or Connecticut, want to ban, limit, curtail, or otherwise impact the sale of firearms I think they should be able to do so by popular referandum or through their elected representatives. I can assure you here in Arkansas the culture is different, as are the wishes of the people, and we shouldn't be told by New Englanders what we can and can't do with firearms in our own state.

As long as it does not violate the 2nd Amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS. Contrary to what Senator Feinstein believes, Constitutional Rights extend equally to ALL States.

 

[The Big D]

LEO's are generally not exempt from any laws...state or federal. With respect to firearms, LEO's can carry any organization provided weapon but certainly cannot buy/possess a full auto gun without jumping through the hoops other citizens must.

LEOSA also specifically address this very question. It stipulates qualified retirees cannot carry any weapon excluded under the Federal Firearms Act or other weapon specifically excluded by FEDERAL statute.

As an aside, I once was involved in a major case concerning an active duty LEO of another organization who was in possession of a federally defined "machine gun." He also has sold a stolen pistol to a convicted felon at his worksite. He thought the law did not apply to him. He was wrong!

Be safe.