Accidental discharge question

[Big Shrek]

Or sometimes it is a Professional Gunsmith who screws up a safety...
as was the case at the ERML drop-bang that the owner got shot in the stomach...
afterwards it was found out the dummy had told his gunsmith to disable it
so that his "Race Gun" would be even faster. Unfortunately, the gunsmith DID...
and confessed to doing so to the local authorities...even showed 'em the written work order.

The poor guy did survive the shooting, but forever more is known as "That Guy"...
the cautionary tale by which the Safety Brief is for.

Bottom Line, the safeties are There for a Reason...ALL of them.
Monkey around with 'em at your own peril.

One might also include Mag Safeties with that as well...
they were designed so that when the mag is out, the gun won't fire...
supposedly this would save people in case of "Gun Cleaning", as removing the mag
should be the FIRST thing one does prior to cleaning...remove mag, check chamber...

And some use Safety Delete's on lever-action rifles, replacing the Cross-bolt
safety with a Saddle Ring...as they think that the crossbolt is unnecessary...
after all, it already has a half-cock
OK, full disclosure, that one I agree with...I'd rather have a saddle ring than a crossbolt safety.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I know an officer (now retired) who such an AD with a series 70 1911 while on duty. It can happen with some designs, most of which are older or of poor quality. It is not common, and should not happen with the majority of quality firearms.

Do you know what the officer did immediately prior to the discharge, or did you just jump to blaming the pistol without a basis?

 

[jimbo728]

The change was for the 2nd Generation and continued into the 3rd.

Correct. My error.
Jim

 

[Barrie]

Don't know what the Officer did just prior to his gun falling and discharging but whatever it was was a very stupid thing to do with it. I witnessed one on film where a Officer shot himself in the foot by grabbing his trigger while drawing his gun. This was in front of a large class of people. He was heavily reprimanded for that action.

 

[k22fan]

This is worth repeating.

[...] If you want to reduce the number of negligent discharges that actually do happen then be damn careful drawing and, more importantly, reholstering.

 

[rwsmith]

Covered an awful lot......

Old person (73) checking in. Although there ARE a few autoloaders still around that may discharge if dropped, most experienced pistol shooters will tell you that most reports of discharge of dropped guns are simply lies expressed by people who wish not to acknowledge that the gun discharged because the guilty party pulled the trigger. That goes double for "I was cleaning it and . . . "

If one were to believe the stories told, one should NEVER clean any gun. That is documented (by credulous "journalists") to be THE most dangerous thing that anyone could ever do with a gun.

That covered an awful lot of suicides, too. I've heard of a dozen cases first hand where someone was 'cleaning their gun and it went off'.

I also know of one you refer to covering their butts. The guy in the apartment next to my bro in law was always sitting in the door of his apartment cleaning his gun with one of those leers on his face saying, "Look at me, I've got a gun." One day a shot went off and the bullet went through the exterior of my BILs apartment as well as two interior walls. With two kids home. I believe by 'cleaning' he actually meant 'playing'.

 

[Wise_A]

*
I may have known at one time, but I don't recall now. People I respect have informed me that the old claim of how the Series 80 pieces screw up the trigger pull is not really valid, and when the carry/carried a 1911, that's what they had. I would not have a pistol with the Schwartz safety as they are failure prone unless perfect. A firearm that does not fire when needed is as bad as one that fires when it is not supposed to.

Well...okay, lemme go line-by-line.

--I would be willing to carry a Series 80, since it really shouldn't affect the trigger pull, especially on a non-match gun.

--I don't believe a Series 80 is necessary, since the half-cock notch should retard the hammer enough to prevent a discharge.

--If I were carrying a Series 70, I would definitely make sure that the sear spring applied sufficient tension to the sear to prevent it being jarred out of the way, and to the trigger bow, so that the inertia of the fall wouldn't cause the trigger to depress and move the sear.

If I'm making it sound like I would buy a brand-new 1911 for carry, take it home, and immediately detail-strip it...well, pretty much yes. Almost certainly unnecessary, but it'd make me feel better, and I'd probably want to tear it down and re-grease everything myself anyway.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, lets start with terminology.

The modern practice is that "accidental" discharges are limited to events caused by mechanical defect. All others are "negligent".....if you're in a non-judgemental mood it might be "unintentional". The latter might cover cases where clothing caught the trigger-especially if you're minimizing down sides.

Drop issues:
The pre-1980 series 1911 can AD if dropped on the muzzle from a sufficient distance with a weak firing pin spring. Good reason to make sure they are part of standard replacement of wear items practices. IIRC the military drop test for the 1911 involved a 6 foot drop to a steel deck, which it passed.

Drop firing can also happen with many makes & models when people screw with the internals to improve the what they believe is an unreasonably hard trigger pull. Sometimes, they get third parties, who may not be either skilled or wise, to do this for them. FWIW, the 1911 safety is a sear blocking safety. If properly fitted and in the on position, the only way the firearm is going to discharge (that I can think of at the moment) is an impact that would break the sear and release the hammer.

Then there are the trash firearms.........

A big attaboy to those who point out that a great many folks know nothing about how firearms work and happily assume that any firearm that falls is gonna go off. And a big raspberry to those who gleefully leap on these stories without checking to see it it's actually possible.

 

[Doug M.]

Do you know what the officer did immediately prior to the discharge, or did you just jump to blaming the pistol without a basis?

*
He dropped it. He flat out said he screwed up. My very vague recollection is that he said dropped it while chasing a violent offender, but he told me about it a good 17 or so years ago, and it actually occurred well before then.

 

[Muss Muggins]

*
He dropped it. He flat out said he screwed up. My very vague recollection is that he said dropped it while chasing a violent offender, but he told me about it a good 17 or so years ago, and it actually occurred well before then.

You know what he said he did . . .