Accuracy is coming: Apex M&P Barrels

[Srruger762]

25 yards

Money well spent on this apex barrel
Shot an other 150 rounds tonight nothing but good results
Just wish my eye where in better shape it's hard to see that dot on the paper
I can't where my regular glasses because my red dot looks like a firework going off so I found a set of reading glasses that work allot better looking at the Burris red dot.
Sucks getting old

 

[bulldogman]

I'd be happy if mine shot like that at 7 yards!

 

[riverfox]

5 shot group

Just back from the range. Really tried to get five perfect shots off at 17yrds. 9mm 4.25" core with Apex semi drop in barrel, Apex flat face forward set trigger and the comp. spring kit. Used Everglades 124gr. plated round nose, 4.8grs. Autocomp and overall length set to 1.15" Kudos to the crew at Apex!

[/URL]
http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag384/riverfox3/Mobile Uploads/20160420_161125_zps8aye1scs.jpg

 

[Srruger762]

Had to post
Went to the range again today, at the end of the day had a few bullets left so I wanted to see what I could do with this Apex barrel at 50 yards with no bag rest or pistol rest this is free hand , we'll I'm pretty impressed on results. With a little more practice I could tighten them up but for the first time at 50 yards I'm very happy with the results.

 

[TacticalReload]

At 50 yards offhand, I think both you and the Apex barrel did great with that group. I'm sure the red dot helps tremendously at that distance, right?

 

[Srruger762]

At 50 yards offhand, I think both you and the Apex barrel did great with that group. I'm sure the red dot helps tremendously at that distance, right?

Thanks, Yes the red dot does help. I think I'm going to change the front iron sight to a blade type (that comes to a point) I think that would help too. I still have the factory iron sights on it, I don't use the rear iron sight any more I use the red dot as the rear sight.
Couple of guys that went with where impressed at the results too. One of them has a M&P 9L like mine he's going to order a gunsmith apex barrel this week. Told him I'd fit it for him.

 

[TacticalReload]

Quick update.

I ordered and fitted an Apex SDI barrel into my M&P9 4.25" Performance Center. Here are the results. I shot from 20 yards (max distance at my range). I didn't have sandbags so I braced my wrists on my soft range bag which was not a proper rest but was as close to a reasonable approximation as I could put to use. Same ammo, same day, same gun, same distance -- different barrel. I shot a few different types of ammo during this session and the results were similar across the board.

Factory OEM barrel:
Glorious ~10" spread!

Best OEM group of the day


Apex Tactical Barrel:




I don't work for Apex. I don't have friends that work at Apex. I didn't receive this barrel for free. Nothing shady is going on here. YMMV.

So all those S&W apologists who immediately jump to blaming the shooter despite whatever evidence is presented to the contrary can put that in their pipes and smoke it. Practice is no doubt going to make someone a better shooter. However, I can practice flapping my arms all day and all night; but no amount of practice will make me ever take flight. Just how widespread the problem is would be anyone's guess, but based on the years of complaints I doubt I'm the only one that has a genuine issue.

I just got off the phone with S&W. They told me that it shoots fine, and they are sending it back to me untouched. I protested, told them I would send them pics of targets I shot, told them I understand that "accuracy problems" are often the fault of the customer but that this wasn't the case -- told them about the difference with the Apex barrel. The guy said that they are still sending it back to me and I should try it out. I asked why I should expect something different when the gun hasn't been tweaked, fixed, repaired, replaced, adjusted, etc. -- he said maybe they did something and didn't note it.

***.

 

[Heyman]

I just got off the phone with S&W. They told me that it shoots fine, and they are sending it back to me untouched. I protested, told them I would send them pics of targets I shot, told them I understand that "accuracy problems" are often the fault of the customer but that this wasn't the case -- told them about the difference with the Apex barrel. The guy said that they are still sending it back to me and I should try it out. I asked why I should expect something different when the gun hasn't been tweaked, fixed, repaired, replaced, adjusted, etc. -- he said maybe they did something and didn't note it.

***.

I bet they didn't do a thing and you'll still get those horrible groups. My SDI barrel arrives today. I can't wait to get it fitted and try it out!

 

[TacticalReload]

The guy said that if I'm not happy when I receive it, I could send it back again. I told him that I wasn't happy when I sent it in, and they didn't do anything so why would I possibly be happy when I get it back? THEY STILL HAVE THE GUN... why does it need a return flight from Texas to Florida just to have someone else take another look at it? Let's just pretend it I just sent it back a second time... pull it and send it through.

I have to waste nearly two hours round trip just to go to the stinking FedEx distribution center to ship the stupid gun. I'm not going to bother again (which is probably what they are counting on).

Thank God for Apex.

 

[Randy Lee]

Hi All,

Sorry for being AWOL, but the growing my company and the relocation process is very time consuming!

I'm glad people are happy with the barrels, and are seeing the accuracy improvement that we see during our testing.

If you are attending the NRA Annual Meeting in Louisville, please stop by booth 2872 and say Hi. We should have some pretty cool stuff at our booth to show off...

 

[53herbie]

I have a CORE with an Apex trigger / sear kit. IMO that kit really delivers and after lurking on this thread a bit, I ordered an SDI barrel and look forward to getting it to the range.

S&W should build these (at least some of them) this way in the first place... in the meantime, I am glad there is Apex.

 

[TacticalReload]

Hi All,

Sorry for being AWOL, but the growing my company and the relocation process is very time consuming!

I'm glad people are happy with the barrels, and are seeing the accuracy improvement that we see during our testing.

If you are attending the NRA Annual Meeting in Louisville, please stop by booth 2872 and say Hi. We should have some pretty cool stuff at our booth to show off...

Seriously... the folks at S&W should be cutting you a royalty check for "fixing" their issues. I understand their not bothering to make a target grade trigger on a service firearm, but there is no excuse for the accuracy issues aside from a pure cost-benefit analysis that determined it's not "worth" addressing. Good on you for seeing a need and filling it with quality products. I wish I could attend the NRA event to personally say thanks for the effort you put into developing this barrel.

 

[Heyman]

I read somewhere that there was a change made and that it should be taken off the 12 o'clock position. I asked Randy about this conflicting info. He told me the following: "You might need to remove material off of the the bell of the muzzle end around the 12:00 position if the barrel will not enter the slide."

YMMV... I suggest that people contact Apex directly if their barrel doesn't fit into the slide BEFORE filing away from 12 or 11 or 10 or 1 or 2 or whatever o'clock.

As a side note, I had to do some fitting in areas besides what was mentioned in the video because I was getting barrel springing. It appears that there is a very wide variety of tolerances with these guns; and depending on the way they stack, you might run into all kinds of issues. If you're not comfortable, it's always safest to have a 'smith do the work for you (assuming THEY know what they are doing!!).

My barrel arrived yesterday. I was able to put it into the slide so I don't have to worry about the muzzle end. It appears I'll only need to take material off of the hood length. Hopefully the pad will not need to be shaved off. So, while I had the barrel in the slide, there was some side to side wiggle in the barrel. Will this lessen once I get the hood length down to the proper length? I assume the wiggle should lessen once everything is locked up properly, correct? Another question I have is, if there is a high spot on one side of the hood length and not the other, how do I take material off of one side without taking it off the other side?

 

[Heyman]

One more question guys. I apologize if this has already been stated. I have a buddy who has a M&P40 4.25. He wants to know if he can buy the SDI 4.25 inch 9m barrel and put it in his .40 slide. Any ideas?

 

[TacticalReload]

Once you get the hood length to the right dimensions, it should drop up and lock into place with no side-to-side play. Also, as per Randy from Apex, you can't use their 9mm barrel in a .40 slide because of the dimensions.

 

[Randy Lee]

One more question guys. I apologize if this has already been stated. I have a buddy who has a M&P40 4.25. He wants to know if he can buy the SDI 4.25 inch 9m barrel and put it in his .40 slide. Any ideas?

Please wait for a new product release in the near future.

 

[Heyman]

Once you get the hood length to the right dimensions, it should drop up and lock into place with no side-to-sidem play. Also, as per Randy from Apex, you can't use their 9mm barrel in a .40 slide because of the dimensions.

Mine is fitted now. I fear I took just a hair too much off of the hood length. If you put your barrel into the slide, will it just fall out if you put it right side up, or do you have to put pressure on it to remove the barrel?

 

[TacticalReload]

Mine is snug... somewhere in between what you describe. However, I wouldn't be too worried until you shoot it. I'm pretty sure that most of the accuracy improvement comes from the increased "dwell time" and not the tightness of the hood fit.

 

[Heyman]

Mine is snug... somewhere in between what you describe. However, I wouldn't be too worried until you shoot it. I'm pretty sure that most of the accuracy improvement comes from the increased "dwell time" and not the tightness of the hood fit.

Wouldn't the tightness of the hood length fit have an impact on the dwell time?

I put 250 rounds through it last night after my post. I wasn't very accurate. I think it was me though, not the barrel. It was 10:30 at night and I was tired from a long day, but wanted to test it as I won't be able to go again until Sat. It functioned flawlessly. I did have one failure but it was a light primer strike, which was also a first for me with this gun.

When the barrel heated up, it did stay in the slide snug. But when it cooled back down, it would again fall out. Also, the slide does go into full battery even if I ease it in.

There is no fore and aft movement from the barrel, but there is still a little side to side wiggle which was present even before I finished the fitting. Also, look at the "E" in the word "GRADE". It almost looks like I didn't take enough off from the hood length, although I know that's not the case.

 

[TacticalReload]

Dwell time of the Apex barrel has more to do with the geometry of the lugs and the fitting pad on the lug. Also, even if you fitted it very tightly, it would start to wear to the point where it would loosen up eventually. The tighter it is, the more friction there would be and the faster it would "lap" together. I would guess that a barrel that needs a little nudge to go fully into battery when eased forward would no longer need that nudge within 1k rounds fired.

Obviously the tighter it's fit, the more accurate it will be; but like I mentioned (and this is just my opinion) I think a bulk of the accuracy and shot-to-shot repeatedability comes from the fact that the barrel doesn't drop out of lockup until the slide has moved considerably rearward as compared to stock... and that happens due much more to the geometry of the lugs / lockup than because of friction or whatever holding the hood / slide together. Maybe Randy will chime in with a more conclusive answer.

Regardless, I think you need to not worry about it so much until you fire the gun for accuracy. I own plenty of non-M&P pistols that are very accurate that don't lock up as tight as a brand new Les Baer. I have found, for example, H&K pistols to be some of the most accurate production guns I've shot and I certainly don't have to push their barrels up to get them to lock into the ejection port. (Now if only Apex made trigger parts for my HK45c, I'd be one happy camper.)