LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Well, the guy got his "25 Straight" patch. Now he needs to work on getting his "Plays Well With Others" T-shirt.
Altercation at the range.
- Thread starter Rastoff
- Start date
I agree. I would suspend both pending an investigation by management. Based on the facts presented, however, here's what I'd do:
(1) As the instigator, Jack is removed from the club. Forget this whole "suspend" nonsense. He's out. He should also be sent a certified letter informing him that he is not welcome on the property, and if he fails to stay away, he'll be trespassed.
(2) You could make the case that Ralph acted in defense. From your description, however, I don't think so. He should also be removed and banned from the club. He also gets a letter.
And yes--these bans are permanent. This "one year off" stuff is nonsense. These guys behave badly, they're not going to learn. Letting them back in invites more trouble.
(3) I'd also have a long, formal talk with whoever is supposed to be in charge of the Trap events. If he stood around while this was happening, or if these shooters were known problems and he failed to take any action, he should be removed.
Now, you say these guys are "Trap range masters"? If they're NRA RSOs or some damn thing in the ATA, I would report them to the governing body.
BC38 said:
Yes. Ralph should not have put his hands on another person, regardless of whether he was goaded into it. This is what we call "being an adult". I've been called way worse, and haven't resorted to putting my hands on another person.
I agree. We should pity these two fools.
That behavior needs to be dealt with decisively and promptly. Check the club by-laws, which hopefully have been put in place, and hopefully address the disposition of safety / behavioral issues while on the club premises. If the club has not adopted by-laws, it is time to do so. If existing by-laws do not address inappropriate behavior on the premises, it is time to amend them to do so. There are 'proper' ways to address poor behavior within a group, and by-laws give the group guidelines for consistency in administering them. The group cannot afford to brush this under the carpet or play favorites with certain members.
The last thing the group needs is these two going at it again. If someone gets hurt, then the club may be held responsible.
It is sad, but I recently experienced my volunteer organization having to expel a member for poor behavior. He's now got the distinction of being the first member ever expelled in a history of community service that goes back 150 years. This was done to protect the organization from legal issues that could arise had we done nothing about an issue that we knew existed. Sad, but times are changing. It seems like the definition of 'common sense' among members does not have the same definition that I assign to it.
Remember, protect the organization/club, not certain chosen members.
The last thing the group needs is these two going at it again. If someone gets hurt, then the club may be held responsible.
It is sad, but I recently experienced my volunteer organization having to expel a member for poor behavior. He's now got the distinction of being the first member ever expelled in a history of community service that goes back 150 years. This was done to protect the organization from legal issues that could arise had we done nothing about an issue that we knew existed. Sad, but times are changing. It seems like the definition of 'common sense' among members does not have the same definition that I assign to it.
Remember, protect the organization/club, not certain chosen members.
Club officers or members meeting. Vote on suspension or expulsion.
If you haven't got this covered in your rules you need to get something in place. If nothing is in place for this that would be your only possible legal challenge.
Around here you would lose your key for such behavior. Poor behavior, making an issue out of a patch, calling a man a liar to his face, etc. At their age thats beyond stupid.
If you haven't got this covered in your rules you need to get something in place. If nothing is in place for this that would be your only possible legal challenge.
Around here you would lose your key for such behavior. Poor behavior, making an issue out of a patch, calling a man a liar to his face, etc. At their age thats beyond stupid.
joeintexas
US Veteran
Man that must be some patch to be willing to get a fanny kicking over. Good grief. This is where two fools met comes to mind.
Precisely, and the club must assure that the two fools do not meet again on club property.
Much ado about nothing. As Jimmy would say, "Tell those two to straighten up or I'm going to tell their Mommies!" 
I wouldn't give either one time off but if you have a BOD they should write them both a letter that says one more time and you're gone - forever. Put copies of the letters in the meeting minutes and display them on the bulletin board for one month. Idiots and shotguns are a bad combination.
Where I shoot skeet we always give a shooter the benefit of the doubt on a dead-lost call. If he thinks he broke it, it's dead. Why argue about stupid stuff like this? We're supposed to be there to have fun. In registered shooting, there are referees - and these two clowns had better not ever lay a hand on a referee.
I wouldn't give either one time off but if you have a BOD they should write them both a letter that says one more time and you're gone - forever. Put copies of the letters in the meeting minutes and display them on the bulletin board for one month. Idiots and shotguns are a bad combination.
Where I shoot skeet we always give a shooter the benefit of the doubt on a dead-lost call. If he thinks he broke it, it's dead. Why argue about stupid stuff like this? We're supposed to be there to have fun. In registered shooting, there are referees - and these two clowns had better not ever lay a hand on a referee.
500SNW
Member
Two men enter, one man leaves!
Doug—I see a chance here for a fundraiser for the Trap Glub—THUNDERDOME! Sell tickets.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmRAiUPdRjk[/ame]
Doug—I see a chance here for a fundraiser for the Trap Glub—THUNDERDOME! Sell tickets.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmRAiUPdRjk[/ame]
Boy, some of you guys ought be writing talking points for Everytown...
Well OK,,
The guy that took the last piece of Birthday cake was killed with the cake knife,,
But the teenager that changed the TV channel on Dad was shot w/a 12ga shotgun.
The Mrs upset about Hubby trampling over her new clean floor took him down with a 38spcl,,3 shots. Then dragged him out onto the porch so he wouldn't bleed on the floor.
All over Stupid stuff.
You'd be writing your own Everytown sad story if the situation escalates and you had done nothing about it.
Those two guys aren't coming back to the club next time as buddy-buddy friends again after what just happened.
It'll start all over again.
Just the way I see it,,I realize others have different opinions and I respect that too.
Cardboard_killer
Member
What's Everytown?
A lot of people on this forum mention having problems with people at their local gun range but I've been a member at my nearby outdoor gun club in Oklahoma City for 25 years and it seems to be about the friendliest place in town. I usually go shoot by myself to just relax, chill out, and focus on my shooting but its pretty common to start a conversation about guns or shooting with other people and have nice conversation. Sometimes it even turns into a long term friendship and very often people will let you shoot their guns if you're showing an interest in them, but I will admit the shotgun leagues have a few guys that are a little too competitive. Most are great guys and will give you pointers on how to improve your skeet shooting but some will act like they're not real crazy about an average level shot gunner shooting with them. Kind of like golfers don't want someone at a lower level playing with them like it will somehow distract them or slow them down.
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
Where are the "Participation Patches"?
I'd suspend them both. At the completion of the suspensions, 'sentence' them to numerous hours of basic remedial safety training. Could be more for the aggressor or the same amount for both.
IF they complete all of that...then consider bringing them back on a probationary basis.
IF they complete all of that...then consider bringing them back on a probationary basis.
jag312
Member
Everytown For Gun Safety. It is an organization started and partially funded by Michael Bloomberg. We all know Bloomberg's standing on firearms and the objectives of this organization.
muddocktor
Member
To me, I would send them both packing for a new place to shoot permanently. There is no call for behavior of this sort at the range and they should both permanently lose their shooting privileges at your range. If men of their age haven't learned how to control themselves over a silly situation by now, they will never learn and they are nothing by a liability to the range.
labworm
US Veteran
Ya think maybe these two still have their Cabbage Patch dolls?
Cardboard_killer
Member
I'm all for keeping firearms out of the hands of people that have proven themselves unable to handle the responsibility that comes with having firearms. That's why felons don't get to buy guns, at least here in Florida.
OMCHamlin
US Veteran
Ha! Not at MY club they wouldn't.
True story; We are a small club, maybe 150 people at any given time. We have a handful of female members.
Some of the older fellas put on something they call a monthly "Fun Match", which involves some .22 shooting and a few claybirds thrown. One of the shooters, a gal in her late 50's - early 60's had come off of the shotgun stage and went to put her 12 gauge semi-auto away in it's case, on a picnic table located behind the firing line (there were still active shooters on the firing line). She decided that while she was shoving the gun in it's soft case, she should go ahead and pull the trigger. Yep, you guessed it, BOOM, a target load of 7.5 shot went right under another taller table and into a members buttocks! Didn't kill him, but he went to the hospital by ambulance.
The club leaderships response?
Of course, make up 20 new and onerous rules because one member can't follow the most simple, basic and time-tested rules of gun handling.
Oh, and as to her? Oh yes, of course, she got a 30 day suspension. Why? Because she was a very, very nice lady, and she didn't mean it. AND, she was very sorry.
30 WHOLE days... Let that sink in...
First (and only, to date) firearms related mishap in the clubs history.
While we're at it, I'll just say this; during my time in the Navy, I was stationed up and down the east coast, and as a shooter, have been a member of many gun clubs. One observation I can honestly say carries across every last one of them; shotgunners, and the shotgun crowd, are spawn of the devil, and if left unchecked, will absolutely ruin any gun club they are a part of, with out exception...
A club farther up north, in Delaware, is rifle and pistol only. Best idea I ever heard, a most enjoyable club, I wish it were closer!
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