Ammo for bear and wolf defense

[7shooter]

My grandson was deer hunting in northern Minnesota this weekend and had put his rifle away when he had a large black bear growl at him several times. Earlier he recorded a pack of wolves howling near his deer stand.
I told him the next time he goes I'm lending him my 4 inch Mountain gun seven shot 357 revolver and holster.
What ammunition should he load his revolver with ?
Thanks.

 

[6518John]

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(The link goes to Underwood Ammo as I intended).

But I would simply keep the rifle handy. I was bored in a deer stand years ago and was reading the back of an ammo box and the 180 grain 30-06 loads in my rifle had more energy at 500 yards than my .44 magnum did at the muzzle.

 

[7shooter]

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(The link goes to Underwood Ammo as I untended).

But I would simply keep the rifle handy. I was bored in a deer stand years ago and was reading the back of an ammo box and the 180 grain 30-06 loads in my rifle had more energy at 500 yards than my .44 magnum did at the muzzle.

Thanks . I'll have him check out Underwood.

 

[Reggie TisFree]

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(The link goes to Underwood Ammo as I untended).

But I would simply keep the rifle handy. I was bored in a deer stand years ago and was reading the back of an ammo box and the 180 grain 30-06 loads in my rifle had more energy at 500 yards than my .44 magnum did at the muzzle.

Those Underwood specs are CRAZY!!!
YIKES!!!!

 

[Echo40]

Neither Wolves nor Black Bear are particularly tough, so anything solid should do, you don't need any crazy overpressure atomic loads that the Mountain Gun isn't rated for and will most likely damage such a fine firearm which is no longer in production.

That being said, be prepared for the usual bombardment of misinformation and spammed links to various articles to support their claims in which something fails to kill a bear or some guide makes bears out to be some sort of unstoppable supernatural creatures which only trained professionals such as themselves have the necessary nerves of steel, razor sharp skills, and Super Magnum Rifle to deal with.
Reality check, bears have been successful killed for centuries using bows and black powder muskets with far less energy than anything anyone carries today. You don't need a 20mm Vulcan Cannon to drop one.

Best of luck.

 

[Univibe]

The common theme is that solid bullets are better for bear defense. No JHP anti personnel loads. Even the guide that killed a big brown with a 9mm was using Buffalo Bore 147 grain hardcast. The key thing is penetration.

In a .357 I'd run 158, or even better, 180 grain flatnose hardcast.

That's why I'm in the small minority of eccentrics who carry FMJ on the street. There are crooks who weigh 300 pounds, which is in the black bear range.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

BEAR THREAD!!!! YAY!!! Even better, WOLF THREAD, too! Excellent.

Since I'm a big fan of the .357 Magnum for woods walking, especially with solids, I like the recommendation. My other concept is a revolver chambered in .45 Colt but, anyway, I like what they recommended above.

I have to note that running into wolves and bears in the Texas deer woods is not something one typically expects, more likely coyotes, feral hogs, bobcats, or maybe, on rare occasion, pumas. But, heck, I ran into a pack of feral dogs once out in West Texas. I popped a cap in their direction from my hunting rifle and they took off.

The thing is, I have never gone into the hunting woods without a backup revolver, and generally a .357 Magnum because my .45 Colt revolver hasn't yet been in the hunting woods. Okay, once I carried a .22, I'm not sure why. Man, that's decades ago!

Anyway, better safe than sorry. Don't rush to unload your rifle until you are safely out of the woods, or at least inside your vehicle, and always carry a powerful revolver.

Bears.
Wolves.
Pigs.
Humans.

Lots of predators out there.......................

 

[7shooter]

The common theme is that solid bullets are better for bear defense. No JHP anti personnel loads. Even the guide that killed a big brown with a 9mm was using Buffalo Bore 147 grain hardcast. The key thing is penetration.

In a .357 I'd run 158, or even better, 180 grain flatnose hardcast.

That's why I'm in the small minority of eccentrics who carry FMJ on the street. There are crooks who weigh 300 pounds, which is in the black bear range.

I’ll have him check out Buffalo Bore also. Thanks

 

[lrrifleman]

Before I became disabled, my dream was to go handgun hunting for both deer and black bear. After doing a lot of reading and research, I settled on a Model 57 6", and started casting 210gr and 215gr SWC for my 41 Magnum. What I remember from my research, was that I should use a bullet with the widest metplat (flat nose) as possible in order to inflict maximum incapacitating shock to the game.

For the above reason, and that alone, I would lean towards the hardest SWC with wide nose as I could find for a supplemental hunting handgun, and for predator control.

 

[glockwhiskey]

Those Underwood specs are CRAZY!!!
YIKES!!!!

I'll second Underwood Ammo. They don't BS their specs.

My carry revolvers are always loaded with their 125gr XTP 38+P's and yes my pistols match or exceed their rated fps.

I also confirmed Underwood's 10mm 180gr XTP's exit my Kimber 5" barrel at or over their box claim of 1300fps.

FYI I use XTP's because we have no bears or wolves in Ohio and that bullet I've proven for whitetail in handguns and rifle. You won't go wrong with a heavy FP hardcast for your application.

 

[30-30remchester]

I am of a different opinion when coming to bullets for bears and such from a handgun. Many states require expanding bullets for a good reason. While you can kill a bear with about anything when hit properly, the need for rapid demise is desirable. There is a video of a hunter shooting a feral bovine using a 44 magnum and 300 grain hard cast bullets. Shot after shot the cow did not so much as flinch. After 6 shots and a reload it finally succumb. A professional bear hunter who trapped bears for control, with over 100 black bears taken, said the most effective caliber handgun he used was a 44 magnum with 240 grain Hornady expanding bullets. These bears were mainly trapped so he had plenty of time to place his shots. He said when the heavy flat hard cast bullets were used the bear threw a fit and regularly hit the end of the chain snarling and snapping. When the expanding bullets were used the bear lost all fight and instead started biting at his wound. If you think about it, no archer would shoot a field tip arrow at a bear simply because it would penatrate the deepest. The law is quite clear on this. Broadheads only for hunting big game. The late great Fred Glaser once had to shoot a trouble grizzly around his cabin. At mere feet away he shot it square in the chest as it was standing. Using a 30-06 and 220 grain ammo he knew from vast experience of shooting grizzlies that this bear is now dead. However it rose again and he shot again, and again and again and again. Needing to reload he discovered he was using 220 grain FMJ bullets instead of soft points. He stated that if he had been using soft points the bear would not have needed a second shot. Elmer Keith talked about shooting jackrabbits with FMJ's in a 45 ACP and having them hop away as if nothing happened. Utah's famous monster grizzly shot in the 1920's was shot at close range with full metal jacket bullets, 8 times and it lived till the next day and was still on the fight when encountered. A ninth shot in the neck finally brought his to bag. I myself have but one experience shooting black bear with a 357. Using 173 grain hard cast bullets, I crawled into a bear den after a wounded black bear. Being almost pitch black inside I could see nothing. With the revolver in my out stretched hand I proceeded inside till the muzzle of the gun poked the bear at which time I turned loose 5 shots in rapid secession. It was a good thing it was close to death before I entered. This is just my opinion and wish the OP the best of luck at whatever he chooses.

 

[JJEH]

What ammunition should he load his revolver with ?

BUFFALO BORE HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN

HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

 

[diyj98]

I wouldn't feel a bit under gunned with a 180 jhp load in the 357 magnum. With big brown bears, I'd probably go with a solid bullet. As someone wrote about, black bears and wolves aren't that hard to kill. I've never killed a wolf, but I've killed my fair share of black bears.

 

[30-30remchester]

My above post was getting too long so I will continue in this reply. The above post gives credence to soft point expanding. Having shot only 3 deer with a 357 magnum all using 158 grain Remington hollow points, all bullets exited so the do have good penetration. Now the opposite view. The late Bob Milek went bear hunting with a 357 and soft point ammo. He shot a black bear in the head several times and the bullets failed to penetrate the bears skull and just mushroomed under the skin. Then the game warden from Wyoming was jumped by a grizzly as it was being let out of its cage. Pulling his 357 loaded with 125 grain hollow points he shot it 5 times with no effect while the last shot in the mouth IIRC killed the bear. While I prefer GOOD expanding bullets I have one example of a 357 not penetrating. I shot a 3# woodchuck with hot loaded 110 grain hollow points. The 3# critter collapsed at the shot but the bullet failed to penetrate more than 3" and was recovered. I tote a 357 loaded in my truck and living in bear and lion territory I hedge my bets by loading a mix of Buffalo Bore 180 hard cast and 158 grain Hornady hallow points.

 

[elpac3]

Forget the pistol and reload you deer rifle

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Reported to be a 44 Mag.
No report on ammo type.
I also prefer Solid Bullets.
But your Rifle has way more Power.

 

[outta_ammo]

So this would appear to take care of wolf, not sure about bears...

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Saw this post yesterday but I was completely out of popcorn and getting low on beer, so I waited a day to respond.

The bears I have encountered (black bears, no experience with Kodiaks, browns, grizzlies, or polar bears) have generally been rather shy and timid around humans, never had a situation in which I felt particularly threatened. But I never tried to pet the little bear cubs either!

I killed one bear, intentionally, using a shotgun with slugs. Ugliest, nastiest, smelliest, most vermin-infested piece of wild critter I have ever had the displeasure of having to deal with. Never again if I can help it.

No wolves have crossed my path that I am aware of. Plenty of coyotes and a few nasty dogs have been dealt with. None were particularly difficult to kill. Only one really stands out, a Rottweiler about 120 lbs with a 300 lb attitude, took 4 rounds of .45ACP 200-grain JHP (the old Speer "flying ashtrays").

OP says his grandson was deer hunting. I think just about anything suitable for deer will take care of business with black bears or wolves. Wolves tend to live, hunt, and travel in packs, so plenty of ammo might be a good idea. Kind of like walking around most big cities late at night, packs of feral critters looking for the next meal?

 

[7shooter]

Saw this post yesterday but I was completely out of popcorn and getting low on beer, so I waited a day to respond.

The bears I have encountered (black bears, no experience with Kodiaks, browns, grizzlies, or polar bears) have generally been rather shy and timid around humans, never had a situation in which I felt particularly threatened. But I never tried to pet the little bear cubs either!

I killed one bear, intentionally, using a shotgun with slugs. Ugliest, nastiest, smelliest, most vermin-infested piece of wild critter I have ever had the displeasure of having to deal with. Never again if I can help it.

No wolves have crossed my path that I am aware of. Plenty of coyotes and a few nasty dogs have been dealt with. None were particularly difficult to kill. Only one really stands out, a Rottweiler about 120 lbs with a 300 lb attitude, took 4 rounds of .45ACP 200-grain JHP (the old Speer "flying ashtrays").

OP says his grandson was deer hunting. I think just about anything suitable for deer will take care of business with black bears or wolves. Wolves tend to live, hunt, and travel in packs, so plenty of ammo might be a good idea. Kind of like walking around most big cities late at night, packs of feral critters looking for the next meal?

Bears really are stinky. When I was a 127 pound high school wrestler the carnival came to town that had bear wrestling .There were two state championship teams in our town so there were plenty of volunteers. The bear was declawed and muzzled and started standing on his hind legs. The wrestlers would come in like they were wrestling a person. Bears are incredibly strong and would easily throw even big strong wrestlers to the dirt and then jump on top and beat them with his fore paws,
When it was my turn I slammed the bear in the chest with my shoulder knocking him to the ground and then jumped on top of the bear. The bear trainer got mad and threw me out of the ring.

I figure I won.
I did have to go home and shower and change clothes.