Ammo Scalpers

[Longcarbine]

A previously reputable and reasonable online site that sells
"Less Expensive Than Soil" is now at 1.50 and up. Very disappointing.

They are not the only so called reputable dealers doing it, I would say about 3/4 of the online ammo sites are doing it. I just close my account with them and unsubscribe from their emails, leaves more for the folks willing to pay those prices.

 

[Jack Flash]

We hear a lot of talk about greedy flippers as if they are "one of us" or "our own". Personally, I doubt that many of them are. Surely they don't own firearms for all the different cartridges they buy. They would be buying and flipping toilet paper or hand sanitizer if those commodities were still in short supply. I would guess the majority of them don't even own a gun.

As so many have said, what they do is apparently not illegal. Personally, I think it's wrong, but there's nothing I can do about it.
If I ran a store selling ammo at retail, I would set a strict limit, say 2 boxes each, on every customer. If I thought someone was bringing in all his friends, brothers, sisters, girlfriends, and wives to buy up all my stock, I would ban them from the store.

They would no doubt flame me on TwitBook, probably drive me out of business, but that's probably why I'm not in the business in the first place.

 

[tops]

With all this talk about BB/pellet guns to practice with, I want to insert what many others have learned and that is using a Crimson Trace laser to practice with. What it can teach you is "when" you jerk, "what" direction you jerk, and to a lessor extent "how you reacquire" your target (sans recoil).



Just my $0.02

When my wife was starting too shoot a pistol she was shooting everything but the target. I told her she was moving when she pulled the trigger. Naturally she said she wasn't. We went to the house and used the laser on the wall. She admitted she was moving as she pulled the trigger. She started dry firing using the laser to practice her trigger pull and she improved. Larry

 

[ElectroMotive]

Seems some people need some remedial reading lessons.

I presume I am the "previous long time blithering on poster who condemned it" - it being using a BB gun for shooting practice.

Self-outting poster. You are indeed.

What I said is that it is NOT a substitute for practice and familiarity with the REAL firearm you plan to use to defend yourself and/or your loved ones. Especially for a NEW shooter with their first gun that they just bought.

Allow me to reply

Why can't the people that are having a hard time finding ammo buy a pellet or BB gun and use it for practice. Practice is just trigger pull and sight alignment and a BB gun will do that just as good as a center fire gun and a lot cheaper.

How's that fit with the "train with what you carry" philosophy? Do you not believe in that principle, or are you going to carry a BB gun for self defense?

He never said anything, ANYTHING, about "train with what you carry". He did say that a BB gun will help with trigger pull and sight alignment. He is correct. You are the one that took his point to absurdity by injecting the comment about him using a BB gun for self defense.

I never said to use a BB gun for self defense. I said use one to practice sight alignment and trigger pull.

Yeah, I read what you said and addressed it point by point.
The point is using a BB gun to practice sight alignment and trigger pull is NOT sufficient training or realistic enough training for self defense - unless that is what you are carrying for self defense. Obviously you agree that isn't a good idea.

And I reply simply by using your own comments...

Now, if you want to demonstrate real ignorance by attempting to argue that it is, have at it.

I have shot a lot of pellets and BBs myself. Helped me with a lot of the fundamentals. Didn't help me become proficient with the handgun I carry every day for self defense though. Never will either.

You may improve your draw and fire times with a BB or airsoft gun, but you are NOT going to improve your second shot times OR accuracy, because you have to practice those skills while dealing with RECOIL, and a BB or airsoft gun DOESN'T HAVE ANY.

You are stuck in the past, and not reading enough. There are BB and airsoft guns that do use compressed air to simulate recoil. While they dont mimic the recoil of a particular firearm 100%, they do it enough. With regards to airsoft weapons and some BB guns, they actually do replicate the controls and the use of them. They do these things well enough that instructors all over the US, including in LEAs, use them for fam-fire and indoor training. They really arent that much different from .22LR conversions, but they are far less expensive to purchase and operate.

That said, the poster you tried to go after didnt mention shooting them to simulate a powder burning, centerfire pistol. He mentioned it as a means to improve sight alignment and trigger pull. While its true that they may not offer a similar trigger pull to firearm, any trigger manipulation is better than none.

Every new gun owner needs to put a few hundred rounds down range to develop proficiency at shooting a real firearm AND to prove the reliability of that new gun. Trying to argue otherwise is simply foolishness. Or possibly ignorance. Take your pick.

Nobody is arguing that. You are merely trying to make an argument that isnt there, or padding your post to make to make it look like it was something of substance. Its not. You can stop now.

 

[pharmer]

As I said. I'm a new handgun owner. I didn't have my first one until a few months ago.........People who don't actually need ammunition buying it up to price gouge others, especially a sea of new potential allies in this fight is greedy.....

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."
I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

 

[germansheperd]

Apparently not. That togetherness went out the window when over & over terms like " scalper ", " gouger ", " stabber " , " just the newbies " ( like they weren't newbies when first here ? ) kept reappearing. Then we heard a few either directly or indirectly criticizing an open, free market. Sorry, no, I'm not on that team.

Its like when Boomers get tee'd off when someone younger calls the "Boomers" yet they are the first ones to call out "Millennials" and bitch about "Millennials". Can't have it both ways.......lol unless you are a Boomer on Smith-Wesson forum.

 

[germansheperd]

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."
I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

Man I hate to tell you people you are doing it all wrong. Quit CALLING and start DRIVING. A lot of the store people don't care and just say no because you are the 100th person to call.
Once again get up every morning and go to the store very first thing. 9 times out of 10 you wont find anything but that 10th time you will score.
While a certain someone was on this board yesterday crying I bought these 4 boxes for $18.36 each at 9:04 a.m. from Wal-Mart RIGHT after I dropped my son off at school.

 

[tops]

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo.

Are those the only pistols they have? If so, Why?

 

[Gary M]

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."

I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

First thing I would do is try to get them away from .380 and into 9mm. .380 has been more expensive and harder to get long before this current shortage and is more so now.

Barring that...

You could always try to trade something that you are well or over stocked for some .380 and then sell or give it to them.

Or they could talk to one of the "10 old guys" and try to work out a deal.

Or they could find a gun show and buy it there.

Not as easy as complaining about scalpers and gougers on an Internet forum, but much more effective for procuring ammo if you need it.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

Man I hate to tell you people you are doing it all wrong. Quit CALLING and start DRIVING. A lot of the store people don't care and just say no because you are the 100th person to call.
Once again get up every morning and go to the store very first thing. 9 times out of 10 you wont find anything but that 10th time you will score.
While a certain someone was on this board yesterday crying I bought these 4 boxes for $18.36 each at 9:04 a.m. from Wal-Mart RIGHT after I dropped my son off at school.

Glad you're managing to find some ammo. I personally don't have the time or the patience to be camping out big box stores, so I've shelved almost everything but air guns. Lots of fishing this summer It's important to have other hobbies.

 

[BC38]

Self-outting poster. You are indeed.

Allow me to reply

He never said anything, ANYTHING, about "train with what you carry". He did say that a BB gun will help with trigger pull and sight alignment. He is correct. You are the one that took his point to absurdity by injecting the comment about him using a BB gun for self defense.

And I reply simply by using your own comments...

You are stuck in the past, and not reading enough. There are BB and airsoft guns that do use compressed air to simulate recoil. While they dont mimic the recoil of a particular firearm 100%, they do it enough. With regards to airsoft weapons and some BB guns, they actually do replicate the controls and the use of them. They do these things well enough that instructors all over the US, including in LEAs, use them for fam-fire and indoor training. They really arent that much different from .22LR conversions, but they are far less expensive to purchase and operate.

That said, the poster you tried to go after didnt mention shooting them to simulate a powder burning, centerfire pistol. He mentioned it as a means to improve sight alignment and trigger pull. While its true that they may not offer a similar trigger pull to firearm, any trigger manipulation is better than none.

Nobody is arguing that. You are merely trying to make an argument that isnt there, or padding your post to make to make it look like it was something of substance. Its not. You can stop now.

Sorry, but I decide when I stop - you don't get to silence people because they disagree. This board isn't part of the cancel culture.

Let me clarify since a lot of what I said apparently went over your head.

My question about the philosophy of "training with what you carry" is in regards to a topic with a long history on this forum. It wasn't a direct reference to anything the other poster said. It was a reference to a universally accepted principle of self defensive carry. Again, if you read what I said I specifically referred to it as a PRINCIPLE. If you don't know what that word means in this context, I suggest you look it up. Obviously it is a principle that you appear to be unfamiliar with.

The rhetorical question that followed my statement about "training with the gun you are going to use for self defense" is a reference to the fact that training with a BB gun only fits with that principle IF you plan to use a BB gun for self defense. Obviously no one does - that is what made the question rhetorical. It amazes me that something so simple has to be so exhaustively explained for you to "get" it, but there it is.

The whole theme of what I have been TRYING to get you to understand is that the 8 million new gun owners in this country need to put a significant number of rounds downrange in order to become proficient with their new gun. Especially since the vast majority of them bought their first gun SPECIFICALLY for self defense, because they are concerned about what has been going on across the country. NOT getting that practice means they aren't really prepared and maybe even unsafe. Practicing with a BB gun will improve some fundamentals of marksmanship, but it hardly prepares a person for self defense with a real gun. For that purpose THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR LIVE FIRE.

These statements are generally universally accepted by anyone who knows which end of the gun a bullet comes out of. Not sure why you have such an issue with what I have been trying to say.

The thing that started the whole discussion is my statement that with the current price of ammo, many new gun owners cannot afford the ammo for the amount of practice and training they need to become proficient. I believe the "scalpers" or "profiteers" or whatever you want to call them are largely responsible for that fact. If that hits too close to home for you, oh well...

BTW I know all about "realistic" airsofts. I have one with the recoiling action you talk about. I'm attaching a couple of photos of it below. It is a full-size replica of a Sig P226 that uses green gas. It weighs about 1/2 to 2/3 as much as the real thing, and the slide reciprocates "just like the real thing" - except that it is nothing like shooting the real thing. The slide is the part that makes it so much lighter than a real gun - it has to be lighter for the gas pressure to make it reciprocate. This one - even being full size - has less recoil than even a 22LR or 25ACP. Plus the trigger has WAY less resistance than a real DA trigger.

So I'm sorry, but I am not convinced that practicing with one of these is sufficient preparation for self defense. Is the trigger and sight alignment practice better than no practice at all? Sure. Is it "realistic" practice/preparation - not even close.

 

[Gary M]

One concern I have with all these late arrival new shooters is that unless they have just recently turned legal age, they have been sitting back in relative happy ignorance of the world around them.

So what happens if a real SHTF scenario arrives, which is the only reason many are now thinking about getting a firearm?

I would really hate it to end up being shot with my own ammo.

 

[germansheperd]

Glad you're managing to find some ammo. I personally don't have the time or the patience to be camping out big box stores, so I've shelved almost everything but air guns. Lots of fishing this summer It's important to have other hobbies.

Lol hardly camping out. I can arrive approximately 9:05 and hit a couple stores and be done by 9:20

 

[Rob613]

Sure, you need to put rounds through your carry gun. Get to know your gun, make sure it's reliable...of course.

Shooting rounds at paper is not going to prepare you for a real SD situation though. A majority of those are bad breath close and you won't even be looking at sights.

You could have 1000 rounds through a gun, shooting at paper, it's not going to help in a SD situation. The only thing that fixes that is real training and yes, they do that with BB guns.

Put in the time searching or pay high prices...that's the ammo world right now. No one owes you anything. The entitlement in this thread is scary.

 

[BC38]

Sure, you need to put rounds through your carry gun. Get to know your gun, make sure it's reliable...of course.

Thank you!

Shooting rounds at paper is not going to prepare you for a real SD situation though. A majority of those are bad breath close and you won't even be looking at sights. You could have 1000 rounds through a gun, shooting at paper, it's not going to help in a SD situation.

LOL, 1000 rounds will help a lot more than zero - or 10, or even 50. It will prepare you a hell of a lot more than putting the same holes in paper with a BB gun

The only thing that fixes that is real training and yes, they do that with BB guns.

SOME places do SOME of their training that way. There may even be some that do all their training that way. The local training facility I most frequent teaches a lot of their defensive shooting classes with live fire.

Here's a link to their classes.
Center Target Sports - Education

If I'm choosing SD training, guess which one I'm gonna choose - BB gun or live fire?

 

[Echo40]

The best way to deal with scalpers is to not deal with them at all.

If nobody bought anything from scalpers on principle, regardless of the perceived necessity, then they would be unsuccessful and thus would be extremely scarce because their financial investment would go completely to waste. They'd be sitting on piles of ammo that they blew all of their money on, eventually forced to sell it off at a loss.

I can honestly say that I haven't purchased a single round from any scalpers, and I never will. I could honestly be completely without ammo and would sooner make due with melee weapons until I could buy ammo from a legitimate business charging the current market price than give one of those low-life crooks any money. It'll hurt them far worse than it will hurt me because I'm not the greedy fool who blew all his money on ammo hoping to turn a profit.

 

[pharmer]

Are those the only pistols they have? If so, Why?

Yep. Not "gun people." Live paycheck to paycheck. Moving up from .380 to 9mm ain't happening, $$$$$ again. Saw LGS "counter guy" a couple hours ago, they have .380 ball for $60/ box 50. I'll pass the info tomorrow. I help out folks that are "enthusiastic." Those that "want a gun in the house just in case", but don't go beyond that mindset, move lower on the list. Joe

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

If they're feeding their family off what they're making scalping ammo, they might be better served spending that time looking for a job. Of course most of those scalpers in my area don't work because they don't want to. Most have scammed their way into disability checks so they can hunt and fish full time.

Best answer in whole post. Your post should put this to bed.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

This thread is so entertaining. I love it.

 

[germansheperd]

The best way to deal with scalpers is to not deal with them at all.

If nobody bought anything from scalpers on principle, regardless of the perceived necessity, then they would be unsuccessful and thus would be extremely scarce because their financial investment would go completely to waste. They'd be sitting on piles of ammo that they blew all of their money on, eventually forced to sell it off at a loss.

I can honestly say that I haven't purchased a single round from any scalpers, and I never will. I could honestly be completely without ammo and would sooner make due with melee weapons until I could buy ammo from a legitimate business charging the current market price than give one of those low-life crooks any money. It'll hurt them far worse than it will hurt me because I'm not the greedy fool who blew all his money on ammo hoping to turn a profit.

Do you really believe some guy that bought ammo at the local Wal-Mart or whatever is going to LOSE money. They will never lose money. Wal-Mart retail is cheaper than dealer wholesale.
You act like a 'scalper' has mortgaged their house to buy 3-4 boxes of ammo at Wal-Mart. Dude seriously if they can go make the rounds everyday they are financially secure I promise you let alone what they have been turning for a profit all along.
You are seriously full of yourself and have no clue what you are talking about.
The only one hurt is your ego.