Any relationship between CCW and Crime stats

[Bengal07]

Does anyone have unbiased and reliable data from a generally accepted source that can show if there is any relationship between CCW permit volume and violent crime rate???? Do CCWs help reduce violent crime rates, increase them, or have no effect?

How about any data that show number of violent crimes committed by persons who have CCWs where they used their firearm in the commission of a crime???

What states have the greatest numbers, what states have the greatest percentage of populations with CCWs?

Specifically---how many times a person with a CCW non LEO, has used a firearm to stop or prevent a violent crime???

I have no idea what the answers might be but my instincts tell me that there is no relationship between # of CCW and significant reductions in crime. I have a CCW.

 

[Old cop]

You might want to start with your local state police agency. Most will have a Planning & Research component and if they don't track this kind of info, may be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Arik]

I did see one a few years ago on a different forum. But its not that simple. If your state issues a ccw and my doesnt its hard to compare the 2 states. There is no before / after stats for the 2 states. Also pointing out crimes in a none ccw state vs a ccw state doesnt say much. One state might have more crime based on population size, demographics, avg income, ...etc...etc..

However if you look at places like England and Australia where guns have been taken away the long term data does show a steady increase in crime.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[shield]

Dr. Gary Kleck, Professor of Criminology, Florida State University, has done a number of studies on this subject.

You can read up on him or contact him below.


Gary Kleck : Florida State University College of Criminology & Criminal Justice

I like this quote about his research that seems to validate gun ownership as a means to counter criminal gun use:

...Other recent research has found that higher general gun ownership rates reduce homicide rates, probably because the violence-reducing effects of guns among noncriminal victims and prospective victims outweigh the violence-increasing effects of guns among criminals.

 

[805moparkid]

my thinking is that its probably not going to prevent anything from happening... if a criminal or pesperate person is going to do something its gonna happen. that being said i think that a situation can be drastically changed, mass shootings can be limited to one or two... BUT... only if a person is properly trained in stress situations... hence the reason i started doing USPSA...

 

[GaryS]

As I recall Kleck originally set out to prove the opposite, but was honest and went where the numbers took him.

I highly recommend "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. He's an economist by trade and crunched numbers in a number of states to reach his conclusions. His research must be valid, because liberals have attacked it many times.

I think there is a revised version out.

 

[7shooter]

John Lott's " More Guns, Less Crime " has useful data on this issue.

 

[Fishinfool]

Speaking in broad generalities, based upon US DOJ statistics, violent crime is down nation wide over the last 10 years, about the same time frame that civilian carry permits really began to become widely available.

Cities that have the tightest gun control laws, such as DC, Detroit, etc., continue to be the leaders in violent crime of all types, including gun crimes.

With todays media information overload, when a mass shooting occurs, its immediate head line news, but the fact remains, in most of this country, its a lot safer to walk the streets at night then it used to be.

On a side note, With so many more responsible citizens now legally carrying handguns, the chances of a gun just being shown, but not fired, to prevent a serious crime has surely increased. I think most citizens who have found themselves in such a position usually just re-holster, and go on their way, afraid of reporting the incident to police for fear of possible legal repercussion. How do you gather an accurate statistic on these situations?

Larry

 

[jaykellogg]

The trouble is you end up comparing apples with oranges. That is, one state with liberal carry laws may have an anti crime atmosphere and conversely states with restrictive carry laws may have lax enforcement (soft on crime). Years ago I heard from a fellow who said that when someone young commits a violent crime that he (or she) should be put away for a long time. The thought was that someone inclined to violent crime wasn't going to change his ways till after the early '40s. In fact the prison population has been going up in the USA and crime has been going down. To get reliable data like the OP wants we need to have a state greatly increase the number of carry permits (or vice versa). Australia and Great Britain are not good examples. They haven't had a gun culture there. In fact when Australia bought up guns the anti gun people pointed to a reduced suicide rate as proof of the success of the program, but the country had been taking steps to reduce suicide for some time before the gun law went into effect.

The county I live in has 2000 people licensed to carry concealed. Once (if) the number gets high enough for people with carry permits to start interfering in crimes and the news starts reporting it then you MAY start seeing some effect. We had a bank robbery recently and one customer had just left the bank (legally carrying). He went back for some reason and the bank was closed after the robbery. He said had he been there when the robbers came in he would have interfered. NC has an active gun culture, but there are a lot of places who resist. The convenience store where my son is manager does not permit employees to carry on duty. The place was recently held up. (Son was not there).

 

[jtpur]

Unbiased opinions or facts? Sorry, no such thing. Anti gun folks will put their spin on the facts and pro gun will do the same, but will report the facts with less commentary. This being said, the State of Texas publishes a list of all crimes, and the percent of those crimes committed by Chl holders. You can see for yourself the numbers, but it is less than 0.5% of chl holders who are convicted of crimes. Violent crime in most states with less restrictive Chl laws, show less crime than States with more restrictive chl laws.

 

[bluegrassarms]

Some useful data on ownership percentages and ccw laws from a GAO study commissioned by congress:

http://gao.gov/assets/600/592552.pdf

 

[TexasArmed]

There are statistics in Texas to support the claim that when CHL's were adopted and the castle doctrine, violent crimes went down. I think that it is pathetic that we have mayors in high crime cities like Chicago and New York who call for national gun control every time there is a mass shooting
somewhere.

There are still a lot of crimes in Texas that are linked to drugs
activity. At least in Texas we don't have to determine what
somoene's intentions are, by giving them a breathalizer or a drug test, whether armed or unarmed, before using deadly force to stop them from getting farther than the front door.
We do not have to allow an assault to take place before protecting ourselves. I think criminals prefer to ply their trade where they are not in danger of being shot. Reminds me of the days when twine was hung around corn fields, with dead crows. But when there are criminals high on drugs, that won't deter them. The fact that they have a substance abuse problem does not obligate me to be their victim.

 

[team sidewinder]

I ofter wonder why when one of these Looney-Toons goes off their rocker and start killing in a workplace, theater or where ever there never seems to be a CCW citizens to stop the violence. I guess it is just the odds that even though there are plenty of CCW citizens out there.

Too bad as I would love to hear of some CCW citizen stopping a nut case before like the cowards they are they end their own lives after killing innocent people, which they probably should have done in the first place before taking those innocent lives.

 

[FTG-05]

Page 9-10.

Good luck!

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

 

[bluegrassarms]

I ofter wonder why when one of these Looney-Toons goes off their rocker and start killing in a workplace, theater or where ever there never seems to be a CCW citizens to stop the violence. I guess it is just the odds that even though there are plenty of CCW citizens out there.

Too bad as I would love to hear of some CCW citizen stopping a nut case before like the cowards they are they end their own lives after killing innocent people, which they probably should have done in the first place before taking those innocent lives.

In a number of cases it's in no-carry zones. The Aurora theater was a no-carry, Virginia Tech was no-carry, Columbine was no-carry, Dr. Hupp testified re the Luby's massacre that she put her gun in the car b/c of the no-carry sign.

I don't pretend to have done a proper statistical analysis, but it's awfully easy to think through these and think about how many were not supposed to have guns present. The law abiding folks followed the law, the lunatics didn't.

 

[Dave460]

guns vs. crime

I agree with 7shooter, the definitive book on guns vs. crime is by John Lott. The details are spelled out on the specific issue you raised.

 

[Neumann]

When looking at crime statistics for Florida, the homicide rate since 1995 followed about the same trend as the country as a whole. Nationwide, the rate of felony assaults and armed robbery declined about 30% since 2001, but over 50% in Florida. Corrolation is not causation, but it's likely that CCW played a role in this decline.

 

[Smitty357]

Having one carrying a CCW while another is committing a crime, may not prevent the crime from being committed. But on the other hand, it may very well save a few lives.

A criminal will commit a crime no matter whos there or whats in his way. If he wants it bad enough, he will do what he has to get it. Its like locking ur door on ur house. Of course u think ur house is safe, but if a criminal wants in bad enough, he's gonna get in not matter how big and bad that lock is (locks are just there to keep honest people out).

 

[FTG-05]

In a number of cases it's in no-carry zones. The Aurora theater was a no-carry, Virginia Tech was no-carry, Columbine was no-carry, Dr. Hupp testified re the Luby's massacre that she put her gun in the car b/c of the no-carry sign.

I don't pretend to have done a proper statistical analysis, but it's awfully easy to think through these and think about how many were not supposed to have guns present. The law abiding folks followed the law, the lunatics didn't.

John Lott states that since the '50's there is only one mass murder shooting that was not in a GFZ. Sorry, I don't a have link to it though.

 

[RandomMan]

The State of Texas keeps stats on the conviction rates of Texas CHL holders. Available here: Texas DPS - CHL Conviction Rates Reports

If you check the stats in 2011, there were 120 convictions of CHL holders that year for a variety of crimes (mostly non-violent). For all the felony convictions in the state of Texas in 2011, CHL holders made up 0.1884% of those convictions.

-Rob