Bug out to where?

[Kanewpadle]

Living about 20 miles south of Seattle, we ain't got a chance. And having my wife's father with us (alzheimers) we're not going anywhere either.

We'll put up a good fight. Mostly against neighbors, it won't take long for them to prevail. But we'll a lot of them with us. The question will be, which ones want to die trying to steal form us?

 

[ladyT]

Religion aside, it certainly isn't foolish to prepare for an apocalyptic type event.
My family survived several 1-2 week periods without electricity. That certainly isn't apocalyptic, but it is tough in the country when you are geared to depend on electricity.

I believe that the most likely scenario for massive civil unrest in the big cities is fine, brought about by two or three years of crop failure. Imagine what would happen in these places if food prices doubled and tripled over a couple of years, then became almost unobtainable. We take cheap, plentiful food for granted. Most people don't realize how tenuous our food supply is. A couple of years of failure of basic grains would be devastating. It can happen.
The link below describes a blight that devastated the US corn crop in 1970. Also, google Ug99.
Untitled

Another scenario would be some kind of natural disaster on the order of Katrina X 10. A Yellowstone super eruption, or a series of Katrina or Andrew strength hurricanes hitting the Gulf and East Coast.

You make a wrong assumption on food. One bad harvest and we are up a creek without a paddle. That's how close we run these days.

 

[rwsmith]

That's so true

In a widespread disaster a good portion of the surrounding population are going to do the same thing you want to do. After Hurricane Hugo we weren't taking chances and bugged out from Charleston, SC and as far as Greenville/Spartanburg (almost to western NC) the motels and gas stations were lined up with people and cars. If we had bugged out during Hugo to my sisters in Columbia the dang hurricane went through there too, killing people along the way to West Virginia.

In the past years there have been much worse. I'm afraid to imagine what it was like in Louisiana after Katrina.

Another note: When something like this happens, any services, emergency or otherwise, that you expect to have just disappear and you are on your own.

Oh, Civil Defense recommended that in nuclear attack, that everyone put 2 feet of earth on their roofs or bug out to neighboring areas where people would let you move into their homes.

 

[Muss Muggins]

But that whole movie scenario of survivors driving around the country for years on gas scrounged from abandoned gas station's in ground tanks is pure BS. (think Walking Dead) Every drop of it will be useless in less than a year.

If you want long term transportation, think Diesel.

I've used gasoline/oil mix in two cycle trimmers and blowers for the past four months that my dad mixed. He died in February, and he kept meticulous records, using a Casio label maker to date his mix. I'm on the can with the 2008 label, which would be about the time he hired a lawn service.

 

[Rex Goliath]

You will have to either form or join a "Well Regulated Militia" if you want to survive. Anyone who thinks they can board themselves into a house with a years worth of MREs and an AR-15 is a fool. Anyone who thinks they are Grizzly Adams and can live off the land is too. Humans are social animals we cannot make it on our own. All we can do alone, is slowly starve to death.

"We must, indeed, all hang together or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin

In 1812 the Brits tried to get their colony back and raised the US Capitol, which the new government abandoned after it was burned down. Yet the revolutionaries still prevailed.

Shawnee Chief Tecumseh sided with the Brits. Tecumseh is quoted (similar to Franklin)..."a twig can be broken, a bundle of twigs is strong..."; Tecumseh had the right idea but chose the wrong side. Moreover weak, feckless, inattentive, indecisive Brit leadership didn't help (sure, they were fighting Napoleon too). We had General Andrew Jackson who was the opposite of weak, feckless, inattentive, or indecisive. Yup, same dead president as on our $20 who decisively won the Battle of New Orleans.

Choose your leaders well, at all times (especially ones who promise more than they can deliver), especially when and if the need arises to establish a counter chaos militia. Sure, Katrina was devastating. Why is it that Holland is below sea level too and regularly tormented by North Sea storms. They did not want to drown either alone or together. So they built dikes and windmill pumping stations (which served a dual purpose as mills). In modern times they built Zuiderzee and Delta Works. They stuck together and worked together for a powerful common cause and solution. What? American Army Corps of Engineers have so much hubris to admit the Dutch have a good idea and just refuse to copy it... hey, can we borrow your blueprints?

It just might be the US dream is walking blissfully into the propeller ...on so many different levels. An EMP is the lesser risk. Speaking of risks; there are physical risks, financial risks among others. Kiss goodbye to a quality of life with further errorsion and devaluation of the U$ dollar. Fellow retirees, say hello to inflation. The Fed's printing presses are a monetary policy EMP.

We are better united than divided. A struggle together for the common cause is made easier with many hands doing the work.
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[hoc9sw]

WEG posted this in his list:
"and add inaccessibility to any monetary assets not in your immediate possession."

If there were widespread power outages, that would happen immediately. No internet, or no computer / smartphone, and everyone who relies on on-line payments is out of luck. Needless to say going into a store with no power and trying to use a credit/debit card will have its issues as well.

If everything is thought to be temporary, a credit card might be accepted, since smaller merchants may still be able to write down card numbers and submit them when things restore, if they trust you.

A good example was NYC during 9/11. The two main switches for electronic banking were in the basements of the towers. It took a while to get what could be switched over actually re-routed. Then there were the ATMs that were emptied in minutes once they would work.
Lesson learned - keep some cash at home.

 

[El Biblioitecario]

A massive EMP attack is a small price to pay if it means I will no longer have to listen to throngs of idiots babbling about nothing on their cell phones

 

[Rex Goliath]

It would depend on how much gas and how long you intend to store it. Thanks to goverment mandated Ethanol, gasoline starts to break down much faster than it used to. By three months it has lost a good bit of its potency. By about six months it is completely bad.
You can add fuel stabilizer to it and it will stay good for a year or longer. I keep several cans on hand for my generator. I do add stabilizer to it and rotate it out every six months. I also date each can when it gets filled so I know for sure when its time to refill with fresh gas.

But that whole movie scenario of survivors driving around the country for years on gas scrounged from abandoned gas station's in ground tanks is pure BS. (think Walking Dead) Every drop of it will be useless in less than a year.

If you want long term transportation, think Diesel.

When or if TSHTF, there is a whole lot of work to do (aside from self preservation). If there are true recovery opportunities; those who can help to that end and the infrastructure to aid in a recovery must both be preserved and protected.

One cannot ignore the total destruction of a 400 fuel truck convoy in a depot staging area in Iraq this past week. People-Places-Things.

Case in point regarding gasoline and aviation fuels in times of emergencies; a fellow like EJ Houdry who was smart enough to develop a process to squeeze more octane out of oil cracking. Prior to WWII, Houdry (a Frenchman) was invited to the US.

It is said that Houdry and his thermal cracking units were a major factor in the winning of World War II by supplying the high-octane gasoline needed by the air forces of Great Britain and the United States for the more efficient higher compression ratio engines of the Spitfire and the Mustang.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_cracking




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[Mcwsky09]

Robert Heinlein, Science Fiction author, feared nuclear war and moved to a remote Colorado mountain. Soon thereafter NORAD was built just across the way from him at Cheyenne. He decided not to move after that I would imagine because he decided that no matter how far you are from ground zero in a true EOTWAWKI situation you are still in heaps of trouble.

 

[Rex Goliath]

I plan on "Holing Up" at the nearest Doughnut Shop !

jimmyj, Dunkin Donuts gives free coffee to people over 55 . If you're paying for a cup every day, you might want to start getting it for FREE. MUST ask for your discount!

My pre-EMP disaster bucket list is to claim ALL the Senior Discounts available.

Updated list last updated: Fri, May 24, 2013 9:35:45 AM Keep this list - - - and send a copy to your senior friends and relatives.
RESTAURANTS:
Applebee's: 15% off with Golden Apple Card (60+)
Arby's: 10% off ( 55 +)
Ben & Jerry's: 10% off (60+)
Bennigan's: discount varies by location (60+) Bob's Big Boy: discount varies by location (60+)
Boston Market: 10% off (65+)
Burger King: 10% off (60+)
Chick-Fil-A: 10% off or free small drink or coffee ( 55+)
Chili's: 10% off ( 55+)
CiCi's Pizza: 10% off (60+)
Denny's: 10% off, 20% off for AARP members ( 55 +) Dunkin' Donuts: 10% off
or free coffee ( 55+) Einstein's Bagels: 10% off baker's dozen of bagels (60+)
Fuddrucker's: 10% off any senior platter ( 55+) Gatti's Pizza: 10% off (60+)
Golden Corral: 10% off (60+)
Hardee's: $0.33 beverages everyday (65+)
IHOP: 10% off ( 55+)
Jack in the Box: up to 20% off ( 55+)
KFC: free small drink with any meal ( 55+)
Krispy Kreme: 10% off ( 50+)
Long John Silver's: various discounts at locations ( 55+)
McDonald's: discounts on coffee everyday ( 55+)
Mrs. Fields: 10% off at participating locations (60+)
Shoney's: 10% off Sonic: 10% off or free beverage (60+)
Steak 'n Shake: 10% off every Monday & Tuesday ( 50+)
Subway: 10% off (60+)
Sweet Tomatoes: 10% off (62+)
Taco Bell : 5% off; free beverages for seniors (65+)
TCBY: 10% off ( 55+)
Tea Room Cafe: 10% off ( 50+)
Village Inn: 10% off (60+)
Waffle House: 10% off every Monday (60+)
Wendy's: 10% off ( 55 +)
White Castle: 10% off (62+) This is for me ... if I ever see one again.

RETAIL & APPAREL :
Banana Republic: 30% off ( 50 +)
Bealls: 20% off first Tuesday of each month ( 50 +)
Belk's: 15% off first Tuesday of every month ( 55 +) Big Lots: 30% off
Bon-Ton Department Stores: 15% off on senior discount days ( 55 +) C.J.
Banks: 10% off every Wednesday (50+)
Clarks: 10% off (62+)
Dress Barn: 20% off ( 55+)
Goodwill: 10% off one day a week (date varies by location)
Hallmark: 10% off one day a week (date varies by location)
Kmart: 40% off (Wednesdays only) ( 50+)
Kohl's: 15% off (60+)
Modell's Sporting Goods: 30% off
Rite Aid: 10% off on Tuesdays & 10% off prescriptions Ross Stores: 10% off
every Tuesday ( 55+) The Salvation Army Thrift Stores: up to 50% off (55+)
Stein Mart: 20% off red dot/clearance items first Monday of every month (55 +)

GROCERY:
Albertson's: 10% off first Wednesday of each month ( 55 +)
American Discount Stores: 10% off every Monday ( 50 +)
Compare Foods Supermarket: 10% off every Wednesday (60+)
DeCicco Family Markets: 5% off every Wednesday (60+)
Food Lion: 60% off every Monday (60+)
Fry's Supermarket: free Fry's VIP Club Membership & 10% off every Monday ( 55 +)
Great Valu Food Store: 5% off every Tuesday (60+)
Gristedes Supermarket: 10% off every Tuesday (60+)
Harris Teeter: 5% off every Tuesday (60+)
Hy-Vee: 5% off one day a week (date varies by location)
Kroger: 10% off (date varies by location)
Morton Williams Supermarket: 5% off every Tuesday (60+)
The Plant Shed: 10% off every Tuesday ( 50 +)
Publix: 15% off every Wednesday ( 55 +)
Rogers Market place: 5% off every Thursday (60+)
Uncle Guiseppe's Marketplace: 15% off (62+)

TRAVEL :
Airlines:
Alaska Airlines: 50% off (65+)
American Airlines: various discounts for 50% off non-peak periods (Tuesdays-Thursdays) (62+) and up (call before booking for discount)
Southwest Airlines: various discounts for ages 65 and up (call before booking for discount) United Airlines: various discounts for ages 65 and up (call before booking for discount)
U.S.Airways: various discounts for ages 65 and up (call before booking for discount)
Rail:
Amtrak: 15% off (62+)
Bus:
Greyhound: 15% off (62+)
Trailways Transportation System: various discounts for ages 50+
Car Rental:
Alamo Car Rental: up to 25% off for AARP members
Avis: up to 25% off for AARP members
Budget Rental Cars: 40% off; up to 50% off for AARP members ( 50+) Dollar
Rent-A-Car: 10% off ( 50+) Enterprise Rent-A-Car: 5% off for AARP members
Hertz: up to 25% off for AARP members National Rent-A-Car: up to 30% off for AARP members
Overnight Accommodations:
Holiday Inn: 20-40% off depending on location (62+) Best Western: 40% off (55+)
CambriaSuites: 20%-30% off (60+)
Waldorf Astoria - NYC $5,000 off nightly rate for Presidential Suite(55 +)
Clarion Motels: 20%-30% off (60+)
Comfort Inn: 20%-30% off (60+)
Comfort Suites: 20%-30% off (60+)
Econo Lodge: 40% off (60+)
Hampton Inns & Suites: 40% off when booked 72 hours in advance
Hyatt Hotels: 25%-50% off (62+)
InterContinental Hotels Group: various discounts at all hotels (65+)
Mainstay Suites: 10% off with Mature Traveler's Discount (50+); 20%-30% off (60+)
Marriott Hotels: 25% off (62+)
Motel 6: Stay Free Sunday nights (60+)
Myrtle Beach Resort: 30% off ( 55 +)
Quality Inn: 40%-50% off (60+)
Rodeway Inn: 20%-30% off (60+)
Sleep Inn: 40% off (60+)

ACTIVITIES & ENTERTAINMENT :
AMC Theaters: up to 30% off ( 55 +)
Bally Total Fitness: $100 off memberships (62+)
Busch Gardens Tampa, FL: $13 off one-day tickets ( 50 +)
Carmike Cinemas: 35% off (65+)
Cinemark/Century Theaters: up to 35% off
Massage Envy - NYC 20% off all "Happy Endings"(62 +)
U.S. National Parks: $10 lifetime pass; 50% off additional services including camping (62+) Regal Cinemas: 50% off
Ripley's Believe it or Not: @ off one-day ticket ( 55 +)
Sea World, Orlando, FL : $3 off one-day tickets ( 50 +)

CELL PHONE DISCOUNTS :
AT&T: Special Senior Nation 200 Plan $19.99/month (65+)
Jitterbug: $10/month cell phone service ( 50 +)
Verizon Wireless: Verizon Nationwide 65 Plus Plan $29.99/month (65+).

MISCELLANEOUS:
Great Clips: $8 off hair cuts (60+)
Supercuts: $8 off haircuts (60+)

NOW, go out there and claim your discounts - - - - and remember ---- YOU must ASK for your discount ---- no ask, no discount
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[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, speaking for myself I hope the end of the world as we know it happens in October cause it's just too damn hot without ac during the summertime. I plan on shooting a cow to eat-pooping down the street and then ravishing a select group o' de ladies. After that perhaps a nap.

 

[dcxplant]

Bug In, Bug Out... Depends on the threat.

Civil unrest, looters: bug in and woe to any who come unwanted at my place!! I'm bugging in.

NBC situation, bug out to safety (north east for me), dealing with bugging out traffic could be bad, but we have a 4Runner and are very familiar with the desert routes and topo map usage. Plan on returning ASAP after the threat is gone. City folk trying to survive in the country will NOT be welcome, and could be treated with extreme hostility. Heck, I get bad vibes from some at a rodeo or fiddle contest up north on weekends just because I don't wear Wrangler jeans, boots and a cowboy hat! What will it be like when my family,shows up from the city needing anything??? I will have supplies for a week, maybe two then I better get my rear end back home, hopefully.

A city of 6 million like Phoenix bugging put to a hostile ecological environment (heat, no water, little food) and a hostile social situation is a baaaaaaaad situation. The locals upcountry may even decide to blockade any outsiders, and I can't say that'd blame them for that attitude.

 

[Old TexMex]

TEN DEGREES OF SHTF

1. Simple power outage for at least 24 hours.
2. Simple power outage for at least 72 hours.
3. Power outage of at least 72 hours and structural damage to your home.
4. …as above, and add some degree of potentially life-threatening illness or injury
5. …as above, and add loss of employment income, and loss of communications infrastructure.
6. …as above, and add civil disturbance rendering some previously-safe areas now unsafe, no reliable police services
7. …as above, and add inaccessibility to any monetary assets not in your immediate possession.
8. …as above, and add hostiles attempting to do you bodily harm.
9. …as above, and add complete governmental collapse.
10. All-out atomic warfare. You are just on the survival-side of the blast radius. You are exposed to high levels of radioactive fallout.

1 through 9 I have dealt with. Haven't been exposed to atomic warfare, but sure hip to conventional.

1-7 numerous times during ocean crossings in small boats and small ships.

1-4 several times at my home during hurricane season

1- used to be common when growing up, also while living in foreign countries, including very recently.

Since I survived and I'm just a knucklehead, everyone should take hope.

And maybe I ought to settle down a little.

 

[Kilibreaux]

I regards to your government scenario, how much of our military would side with our government? If it came down to a war against a tyrannical US government I'd like to think that the majority of the individuals in our armed forces would attempt to turn the advanced technology you speak of on the government and not on the citizens. I think that would even the playing field quite a bit. Also, there are a bit over a million people currently serving in our armed forces correct? Many of which are currently stationed in other countries. I don't know how many exactly. In Florida alone, there are over a million people with CCW permits. Those are people just with permits, then you got to consider those without permits that may also have a small arsenal of weapons that they keep at home. Thats just one state, so in terms of numbers, I think throughout the country, patriotic 2nd amendment supporters who will be willing to fight should vastly outnumber our own military. Still a losing battle for us, but with many many veterans on this site I'd like to think that when you all were serving, if something wild happened and our government sent you guys to harm American citizens that you would turn the firepower on the government instead. And I'd like to think that those serving in our military today would do the same.

An all volunteer Army is a game-changer for the populace.
Kid yourself NOT the "modern" all volunteer Army WILL do as they are ordered when it comes to subduing your sector of the world.

Just as with the Police...it's an "us or them" situation. Cops perceive themselves as OUTSIDE of the norm known as "us." They'll "do their duty" you can be sure.
The military will "do their duty..."
MAYBE down the road aways we'll see an insurgency arise from within the military ranks....

 

[Farmer17]

EMTs, nuclear war, bands of thugs, zombies, etc don't worry me in the slightest however our multi-trillion dollar national debt that is sky- rocketing out of control scares the heck out of me! In all honesty I see absolutely no way our nation can recover from it and we will have an economic collapse with global effects that will make the "crash of 29" seem like a Sunday picnic. If someone can explain to me how our nation WILL avoid this, please enlighten me....I could use the cheering up.

 

[jughed440]

The biggest threat is the under 30 crowd going ballistic if their smart phones stop working.

 

[chaparrito]

We would be fine here on the ranch indefinitely. What concerns me is the inevitable flood of refugees from the city, which is only two hours away. Those folks will be desperate, and lots of them will be armed. The only real solution I can see is complete fortification of our property and I am loathe to do that. I can see it spiraling out of control into some sort of prepper hysteria. I guess I too am among those here who are hoping to not live that long....

 

[G.T. Smith]

I thought about a bug out location till I realized most people that were looking for a place to bug out to, were describing my property. I be buggin' in thank you.
Peace,
gordon

 

[feralmerril]

So the entire world go`s to hell, but not us, no sir ree! We have looked after ourselves, stockpiled all manner of supplys, ammo etc. Got kill zones laid out etc. We are good to go. Only we cant leave our property. That life worth living?

 

[gizamo]

This is epic. I read the whole thing and want to thank most of you for the laughter...

Epic fail. Bad advise on top of fatalism.... all the way to fantasy. Great stuff!!!!

Giz