Can a mod 15 frame take the pressure of 357...

[BE Mike]

Do what you want, but S&W introduced the L frame to withstand the beating of regular .357 mag. shooting and that was only because police started qualifying with full house duty loads and the K frames weren't always up to the task. Police rarely qualified more than semi-annually, except for certain federal agencies who qualified quarterly.

 

[biku324]

Would it be possible to simply bore the 38 cylinder a little deeper to the 357 mag chambering?

Would it be long enough?

John?

This was fairly common in my area of SW MO back in the '70s when police and sheriff's officers wanted a 357 but couldn't afford to change over. For a few bucks, a few Springfield and Joplin 'smiths would simply deepen the chambers on Model 10s. They ALWAYS cautioned not to regularly shoot magnums, but train/qualify with 38 specials.

Skinny barrel Model 10s were no fun with the standard 357 magnum 158 grain lead bullet ammo.

Wonder what happened to those old revolvers?

 

[steelslaver]

Steelslaver, in post #10 you said you have a hardness tester. I've never heard of that. Is it anything like an eddy current test? We used to have a guy come in and check our chilled water and condenser tubes using an eddy current test, but that was for the wear and thickness of the copper tubes and the steel shells. (Ammonia systems used all steel.)
I really like to hear of tools that I don't have, so I know they're out there if I need one! (If I don't learn some obscure fact once a day it means I didn't wake up. This morning I learned my debit card has been compromised for $8.97. Dang thieves!)

No, eddy current testing looks for cracks and works by inducing a known electromagnetic field and looking for variations in the feedback from it., Most hardness testing is done by making an indent, Mine, uses a diamond point, (RC), or a ball,,(RB) and applying a set pressure and then measuring the depth of the indent it causes,.

 

[Claymore33]

NO, do not do that . Buy Mod 19 or 27

 

[Hair Trigger]

Go get yourself a Model 19.

NO, do not do that . Buy Mod 19 or 27

I agree with these guys.

The M19, M65 and M66 (and probably the M13) frames are all slightly heavier in the yoke and barrel mounting area than the standard K frame, and my guess is the heat treatment is better as well. You might get by for a while, but I don't thing your Frankengun would hold up for long.

 

[oddshooter]

Although he's from Montana,

steelslayer for the WIN !

It's hard to beat experience and knowledge.


Prescut

 

[steelslaver]

I agree with these guys.

The M19, M65 and M66 (and probably the M13) frames are all slightly heavier in the yoke and barrel mounting area than the standard K frame, and my guess is the heat treatment is better as well. You might get by for a while, but I don't thing your Frankengun would hold up for long.

Actually take a model 19 or 2 in hand and measure them carefully and do the same thing at the same points on 14, 15s and 10s and you will know they are the same. My having several 19s, 14s, 15s and 10s and a set of calipers shows me that they are all the same dimensions in those areas. You can actually change the yoke from a 19 to a 14 or 15 or visa versa. Been there and done that. There are some small variations from frame to frame even among those of the same model #. One again having multiple spare yokes, in all the frame sizes, am sure of this. There is sometimes a tiny bit of mismatch due to finish polishing. The early guns do have a slightly different front profile, but that seams to cover all model. Do not have a pre model 19, after the -3 mine are all close to the same. 19s, 10s, 14s and 15s

Do like me. Take a model 10 frame, (an old 10-2) cut and mill it for adjustable sights, stick a model 19 cylinder and barrel in it and fire a thousand or so 357s from it and just like me, you will also find out that such a Frankengun will be just as tight as either of my model 19s. Mine has no more endshake than it did when the cylinder was fit in it. The very first S&W project gun for me. Bought it cheap as when it was still a 38 special with a cracked forcing cone long before coming to this forum.

 

[steelslaver]

Although he's from Montana,

steelslayer for the WIN !

It's hard to beat experience and knowledge.


Prescut

Arizona, where wore out cowboys retire

 

[Hair Trigger]

Actually take a model 19 or 2 in hand and measure them carefully and do the same thing at the same points on 14, 15s and 10s and you will know they are the same. My having several 19s, 14s, 15s and 10s and a set of calipers shows me that they are all the same dimensions in those areas.

My statement was based on what is said in the SCSW. I don't have a non-magnum K frame to compare to the M19/66, of which I have one each. I'm not doubting you at all; in fact, if you have done the comparisons, you should let the editors of SCSW know and maybe they'll remove the information from the upcoming 5th Edition.

 

[scooter123]

I agree with these guys.

The M19, M65 and M66 (and probably the M13) frames are all slightly heavier in the yoke and barrel mounting area than the standard K frame, and my guess is the heat treatment is better as well. You might get by for a while, but I don't thing your Frankengun would hold up for long.

Have you ever used calipers to confirm this RUMOR, like most absolute statements found on the Net it's not true. I know because I just used my Mititoyo digital calipers to measure the "diameter" where the frame mounts the barrel on a model 19-3 and a model 67-1. The 19-3 measured at 0.825 inch and the 67-1 measured at 0.821, a whopping difference of 0.004 inch. BTW, the 67-1 is fully hand polished because I used to clean it with 3M Finesse-it marine polish which may explain that tiny reduction in size. However I suspect the manufacturing tolerance in this area is probably +/- 0.010 inch.

I also measured the frame at the point where the barrel is mounted on both and the 19-3 was 0.001 inch shorter than the 67-1. Also checked the the frame window dimensions and cylinder diameters and all are a match within a tolerance of 0.004 inch.

The ONLY difference between the two frames are that the top strap on the model 19 is 0.020 inches thicker. That will provide a small increase in strength but it is such a minor increase my hunch is that it's a result of different forging dies being used because there is 10 years difference in year of estimated manufacture. Quite simply at some point the forging dies were replaced and as a result the top strap thickness is slightly reduced.

 

[steelslaver]

The weak pint on a any of the adjustable sight guns is square cut for where the rear sight body sits down in the frame.

I have 2 19-3s a 2 15-3s a 14-3 and numerous model 10 frames. Not much difference. I have never checked any of my earlier non model K frames. I do know those have a slightly different profile on front of frame. If you stick a new yoke in them it will close up, but thee lower part will stick out quite a bit from the frame.

It would be interesting to check and early Combat mag against a modern say 19-3 0r 15-3 frame and say a 1955 M&P

But, I believe that for some time all the current frames are virtually identical. Besides as scooter123 said it makes way more sense from a manufacturing cost and liability standpoint. When you have thousands and thousands of frames making sure to keep the "special" ones separate would give someone nightmares. For what? A quick normalization before the full heat treat? How is machining of more metal or a slightly different profile from the casting to make the non magnums going to save money????

 

[Muley Gil]

Dr Roy has stated on several occasions that the magnum frames received heat treatment that the non-magnum frames did not.

 

[lilwoody]

Actually take a model 19 or 2 in hand and measure them carefully and do the same thing at the same points on 14, 15s and 10s and you will know they are the same. My having several 19s, 14s, 15s and 10s and a set of calipers shows me that they are all the same dimensions in those areas. You can actually change the yoke from a 19 to a 14 or 15 or visa versa. Been there and done that. There are some small variations from frame to frame even among those of the same model #. One again having multiple spare yokes, in all the frame sizes, am sure of this. There is sometimes a tiny bit of mismatch due to finish polishing. The early guns do have a slightly different front profile, but that seams to cover all model. Do not have a pre model 19, after the -3 mine are all close to the same. 19s, 10s, 14s and 15s

Do like me. Take a model 10 frame, (an old 10-2) cut and mill it for adjustable sights, stick a model 19 cylinder and barrel in it and fire a thousand or so 357s from it and just like me, you will also find out that such a Frankengun will be just as tight as either of my model 19s. Mine has no more endshake than it did when the cylinder was fit in it. The very first S&W project gun for me. Bought it cheap as when it was still a 38 special with a cracked forcing cone long before coming to this forum.

The revolver is a model 15 frame, with a model 10 cylinder an crane, a 14 barrel, a mod 19 hammer, a 66 target trigger, cylinder an rebound.

 

[chief38]

For a limited number of rounds, yes. I would certainly limit how many rounds get shot and never use the light weight 11, 125, 135 gr. bullets. Stick to 158's on the rare occasion you do shoot magnums.

The K Frames were never designed for constant use of Magnums.

 

[steelslaver]

Dr Roy has stated on several occasions that the magnum frames received heat treatment that the non-magnum frames did not.

I am sure at one point near the beginning of the Combat Magnum production this was true. I find it hard to believe it was for many years. Know how to heat treat it baffles me why one would use an inferior method on some frame when the amount of effort for the best method was minimal at best. The only real improvement they could make would be adding a normalization cycle after the forging in order to reset the grain growth caused bu the forging heat. Changing temp before quench, quench method or tempering cycles.

There is nothing to gain by using an inferior heat treat method on a material similar to 4140

The Heat Treaters guide is a great source. Complete with methods and results on steels