Nframecollector
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Locked and loaded!
CCW: Keep one in the pipe?
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I guess I'm living dangerous carrying my XDm with a round in the pipe. I do try to remember to pay attention when holstering the thing and I don't remember forgetting to keep my palm off the grip safety. I suppose it might have happened but for that to happen AND my shirt get wrapped around the trigger just right seems like pretty long odds to me. There is "always" some danger carrying a gun of any kind in any way. The thing is going without a gun can be dangerous too IMO.
The only time I wouldn't carry with a round in the pipe would be if I was carrying a very old design gun and not all of those were bad either. But something like a Luger would never be on my side with a round in the tube. The Germans knew better than to carry them that way. My guess is the Israeli army learned to do their one hand rack because they were carrying guns that weren't safe to be carried in anything resembling C1. They have been doing it a long time and there were quite a few guns around from that era that weren't exactly safe for carrying with a round chambered. I have no idea why they still do it. Tradition maybe. Whatever they generally carry a rifle as their first line of defense anyway. Not many soldiers go into battle with just a sidearm.
I've owned and carried handguns that I would not carry with a round in the tube. I carried a Norinco Tokarev (TT-33) and I never felt it was particularly safe to carry with one in the chamber. But it was all I could afford at the time and it was better than nothing to carry it the way I did.
Most of us never get into a fire fight. That's a good thing. But do yourself a favor. If you don't have a modern handgun that's made to be carried with a round in the tube then get one if you want to carry. It's not like people are dropping like flies from all the CCW people around now.
I just read some stats that I thought were very impressive. From 1930 to 2011 unintentional firearm related fatalities have decreased 81%. They're down 58% since 1991. At the same time far more people are now carrying guns. What that tells me is that guns are far safer than they once were. Sure people might be trained better and they might secure their guns better so kids don't get them but it wouldn't account for a percentage that high. Guns are safer IMO. So get a modern gun and be happy with it. I'm not suggesting that anyone go to carrying locked and loaded. Only you can make that choice. Some people just aren't made to carry that way. We all have our faults. But there are ways to minimize your risks. BTW I don't think revolvers are all that much safer than semi-autos these days. I know if something were to catch on the hammer and pull it back on my 629 it wouldn't take much to make the trigger go off. Sure it would be hard to pull that hammer back since the cylinder would have to turn. And my holster is pretty tight. But never say never. It could happen.
The only time I wouldn't carry with a round in the pipe would be if I was carrying a very old design gun and not all of those were bad either. But something like a Luger would never be on my side with a round in the tube. The Germans knew better than to carry them that way. My guess is the Israeli army learned to do their one hand rack because they were carrying guns that weren't safe to be carried in anything resembling C1. They have been doing it a long time and there were quite a few guns around from that era that weren't exactly safe for carrying with a round chambered. I have no idea why they still do it. Tradition maybe. Whatever they generally carry a rifle as their first line of defense anyway. Not many soldiers go into battle with just a sidearm.
I've owned and carried handguns that I would not carry with a round in the tube. I carried a Norinco Tokarev (TT-33) and I never felt it was particularly safe to carry with one in the chamber. But it was all I could afford at the time and it was better than nothing to carry it the way I did.
Most of us never get into a fire fight. That's a good thing. But do yourself a favor. If you don't have a modern handgun that's made to be carried with a round in the tube then get one if you want to carry. It's not like people are dropping like flies from all the CCW people around now.
I just read some stats that I thought were very impressive. From 1930 to 2011 unintentional firearm related fatalities have decreased 81%. They're down 58% since 1991. At the same time far more people are now carrying guns. What that tells me is that guns are far safer than they once were. Sure people might be trained better and they might secure their guns better so kids don't get them but it wouldn't account for a percentage that high. Guns are safer IMO. So get a modern gun and be happy with it. I'm not suggesting that anyone go to carrying locked and loaded. Only you can make that choice. Some people just aren't made to carry that way. We all have our faults. But there are ways to minimize your risks. BTW I don't think revolvers are all that much safer than semi-autos these days. I know if something were to catch on the hammer and pull it back on my 629 it wouldn't take much to make the trigger go off. Sure it would be hard to pull that hammer back since the cylinder would have to turn. And my holster is pretty tight. But never say never. It could happen.
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tom-tom
Member
A few years back, my wife and I were taking a stroll through our semi-rural neighborhood. We were attacked by a pit bull which had slipped its chain. (This dog had previously gotten loose, mauled a smaller dog being walked by its owner and bit the lady walking her dog. For some reason, the county animal control officer who responded did nothing but file a report.)
I got my wife behind me while drawing my carry gun, a .32 Beretta New Puma. Yes, not a stopper, but convenient to carry and I wasn't expecting a serious threat. The pistol has a crossbolt (push button) safety at the upper left grip where a Colt 1911 has it's safety. The push button is very quick to come off, but secure in a holster.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that the gun's fast into action and I put three in the dog before it went down for the count. It was just a couple yards from us when it stopped and had been moving as fast (or probably faster) than I. If I hadn't been carrying cocked and locked, I don't know if I'd have been able to stop that dog.
Also, thank goodness for those hard FMJ bullets that got good penetration of a quartering, fast moving target. All three plowed right through the chest, staying in the animal, being stopped my the tough hide on the far side of the body.
That was my one and only time shooting a pistol at a moving target. I was surprised I shot as well as I did.
The same officer came out who'd responded to the call a few weeks earlier, along with a sheriff's deputy. They both suggested a better calibre. They also read the riot act to the dog's owner.
I got my wife behind me while drawing my carry gun, a .32 Beretta New Puma. Yes, not a stopper, but convenient to carry and I wasn't expecting a serious threat. The pistol has a crossbolt (push button) safety at the upper left grip where a Colt 1911 has it's safety. The push button is very quick to come off, but secure in a holster.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that the gun's fast into action and I put three in the dog before it went down for the count. It was just a couple yards from us when it stopped and had been moving as fast (or probably faster) than I. If I hadn't been carrying cocked and locked, I don't know if I'd have been able to stop that dog.
Also, thank goodness for those hard FMJ bullets that got good penetration of a quartering, fast moving target. All three plowed right through the chest, staying in the animal, being stopped my the tough hide on the far side of the body.
That was my one and only time shooting a pistol at a moving target. I was surprised I shot as well as I did.
The same officer came out who'd responded to the call a few weeks earlier, along with a sheriff's deputy. They both suggested a better calibre. They also read the riot act to the dog's owner.
Protected One
Member
I understand your point, and with the following exception agree with you. I consider the "improved safety of the administrative handling" to be a "perceived improvement rather than real, as the steps taken render the gun no more safe than it would be (properly handled) without those steps. Granted, if the owner perceives it as a "real" improvement then he/she is probably better off doing so, if only for their peace of mind, but the REALITY is - there is no improvement.
True. But I would not compromise my safety by selecting say, OWB if it were demonstrable that IWB gave me the best odds of coming out ahead in a defensive situation. Or selecting 4:30 carry, if it were proven that 3:00 gave me the best odds.
The "Administrative task" will ALWAYS play second fiddle to best defensive practices for me.
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hellonwheels
Member
Yes, I sport a manual wheelchair and I set on my CCW. I don't chamber a round until I need it. I care an M/P 40 and the rear sight hooks on my wheel or clothes guard really nice, push and I'm ready to go.
foggbird
Member
When my son was a toddler, I kept a 1911 on the bedside, Condition 3. Full magazine, nothing in the chamber, safety off. My son didn't have the finger strength to rack the slide even though he got into everything. I didn't carry concealed because I lived in the San Francisco area and a concealed carry permit was impossible to obtain. Cocked and locked would have been faster, but I didn't think it was worth the risk of a dead child.
Now I have a concealed carry permit in North Carolina and carry either a revolver or a Kel Tec .380 when concealment is my prime consideration. In the bedroom, I have a short barreled side by side, loaded and on safety as that type of firearm is the one I use all the time. I don't have to think about anything as I automatically take off the safety as I bring the shotgun up to my shoulder. The shotgun is on top of a tall bookcase where I can easily reach it but would be difficult for a child. We almost never have children in our house, but when we do, all guns go in the gun safe. That may not work for you, but it does for me.
Now I have a concealed carry permit in North Carolina and carry either a revolver or a Kel Tec .380 when concealment is my prime consideration. In the bedroom, I have a short barreled side by side, loaded and on safety as that type of firearm is the one I use all the time. I don't have to think about anything as I automatically take off the safety as I bring the shotgun up to my shoulder. The shotgun is on top of a tall bookcase where I can easily reach it but would be difficult for a child. We almost never have children in our house, but when we do, all guns go in the gun safe. That may not work for you, but it does for me.
David Armstrong
Member
No disagreement, and that is a rational choice FOR YOU. For someone else the rational choice may lean more to the administrative side of the scales. That is why I emphasize figuring out what is best for you and your situation.This is often presented as a one-size-fits-all issue and it is not. What is right for you in your situation with your skills and your equipment may be less than desirable to me with my skills and my equipment in my situation. Fortunately the choice doesn't seem to matter much in real life.
Autococker07
US Veteran
Feel how? too cool for school? Nope, I am not a ninja, navy seal airborne ranger bad *** that can rack and fire at an attacker while eating a hotdog and taking a nap. I'm just lil ole me... If I carry a gun I carry it ready to use and pray I never have to.
bp231986
Member
Safety should be in your head not your gun. if you cant handle that maybe you should give me your gun.....for free....youre welcome 
tinman931
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If you're carrying a vintage Colt SAA then that is a legitimate carry mode. Otherwise, if your index finger on your dominant hand isn't safety enough, get a different gun or don't carry.
Why would I carry a useless gun? I can't predict exactly when I might need it anymore than I can predict when a drunk might broadside me out of nowhere. It's insurance whether it's a car or a self defense tool.
Why would I carry a useless gun? I can't predict exactly when I might need it anymore than I can predict when a drunk might broadside me out of nowhere. It's insurance whether it's a car or a self defense tool.
First post.
This seems to be a topic that comes up frequently on different gun forums and I’m not sure I have anything new to add to it, but I will say this;
I only carry one of two guns a 6906 or a 4006. As I’m sure most of you know both are designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode. I can’t think of a safer gun to carry with a round in the chamber.
Second point: I was the victim of an attempted mugging several years ago. I was new to carrying and I did not have a round in the chamber. I got lucky and the mugger took off when he saw my pistol come out of my pocket. The key point to this whole episode though is that in my panic I completely forgot that I had no round in the chamber. I am certain that had the mugger pressed the attack he would have got to me before I got a round up.
Final point: The first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915. Like the two pistols mentioned above it was designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode but I didn’t know that.
Almost everyone I knew at the time was an M1911 aficionado and they all carried in condition one, generally in a level one retention holster with the strap seated between the hammer and the firing pin.
Not knowing any better I carried my 915 like that for 6 months until someone squared me away.
Now in case I haven’t made myself explicitly clear here I walked around with a cocked and unlocked pistol in my holster for 6 months.
Now as UNSAFE as I now KNOW this is, I have to admit the pistol never “went off” during that time.
I have to ask my self how much less likely a modern firearm, in good working order, carried properly would be to just “go off”
This seems to be a topic that comes up frequently on different gun forums and I’m not sure I have anything new to add to it, but I will say this;
I only carry one of two guns a 6906 or a 4006. As I’m sure most of you know both are designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode. I can’t think of a safer gun to carry with a round in the chamber.
Second point: I was the victim of an attempted mugging several years ago. I was new to carrying and I did not have a round in the chamber. I got lucky and the mugger took off when he saw my pistol come out of my pocket. The key point to this whole episode though is that in my panic I completely forgot that I had no round in the chamber. I am certain that had the mugger pressed the attack he would have got to me before I got a round up.
Final point: The first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915. Like the two pistols mentioned above it was designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode but I didn’t know that.
Almost everyone I knew at the time was an M1911 aficionado and they all carried in condition one, generally in a level one retention holster with the strap seated between the hammer and the firing pin.
Not knowing any better I carried my 915 like that for 6 months until someone squared me away.
Now in case I haven’t made myself explicitly clear here I walked around with a cocked and unlocked pistol in my holster for 6 months.
Now as UNSAFE as I now KNOW this is, I have to admit the pistol never “went off” during that time.
I have to ask my self how much less likely a modern firearm, in good working order, carried properly would be to just “go off”
Safety should be in your head not your gun. if you cant handle that maybe you should give me your gun.....for free....youre welcome
You are aware that there are reflexes you can't control with your head.
I prefer somebody who engages his safety admitting that he does not feel ready walking around without any safety then somebody claiming he has it all in the head and an unwanted shot is fired
I have been in Afghanistan so I am familiar with protecting your life with everything you have in real situations.
I got to say that over there my safety was 99% of the time my finger and nothing else.
Now when I carry here in the U.S I do have one in the pipe but safety is engaged. I drilled myself plenty enough to automatically disengage the safety as soon as I draw.
The reason why is because I carry IWB.
If I could legally cary OWB safety would be probably disengaged.
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Hodgin
US Veteran
I carry my 9c about 90 percent of the time, one in the chamber and safety on. I practice with safety on and don't want to take a chance of doing something stupid and the thing going off. I hear of too many accidents to think I'm above one.
When I pocket carry my BG 380 I carry it in a holster that covers the trigger guard and hot. The safety isn't as easy to flip off as the one on my 9c and the trigger pull is very long and heavy. My revolver had a shorter and lighter pull. Also, I never put anything in my pocket when carrying the BG.
When I pocket carry my BG 380 I carry it in a holster that covers the trigger guard and hot. The safety isn't as easy to flip off as the one on my 9c and the trigger pull is very long and heavy. My revolver had a shorter and lighter pull. Also, I never put anything in my pocket when carrying the BG.
Protected One
Member
You are aware that there are reflexes you can't control with your head.
I prefer somebody who engages his safety admitting that he does not feel ready walking around without any safety then somebody claiming he has it all in the head and an unwanted shot is fired
I have been in Afghanistan so I am familiar with protecting your life with everything you have in real situations.
I got to say that over there my safety was 99% of the time my finger and nothing else.
Now when I carry here in the U.S I do have one in the pipe but safety is engaged. I drilled myself plenty enough to automatically disengage the safety as soon as I draw.
The reason why is because I carry IWB.
If I could legally cary OWB safety would be probably disengaged.
Why can't you carry OWB as long as its concealed?
HCH
Member
He's going to have to leave out the cartridge in the ready to fire position just in case the trigger is accicentaly pulled.
I carry pistols with the chamber loaded and the safety Off. Same condition as a revolver.
bluegrassarms
Member
personally I can't imagine carrying a gun where there's any chance that I pull the trigger and it doesn't go bang.
So I carry it fully loaded, and I carry it in a holster that fully protects the trigger and I carry guns that require a good strong trigger pull and don't carry cocked and locked (nothing wrong with it but I don't do it), but when I pull that trigger it goes bang. In the hopefully never-happen case where I need it I assume I'll be in a scenario where my wits will be at their limit and my body coursing with adrenalin. I want it simple, where my only decision is to draw my weapon or not.
So I carry it fully loaded, and I carry it in a holster that fully protects the trigger and I carry guns that require a good strong trigger pull and don't carry cocked and locked (nothing wrong with it but I don't do it), but when I pull that trigger it goes bang. In the hopefully never-happen case where I need it I assume I'll be in a scenario where my wits will be at their limit and my body coursing with adrenalin. I want it simple, where my only decision is to draw my weapon or not.
If the time actually comes to use your gun for self defense, your going to need it NOW! Not a second or two from now.
All these guys who say they will have time to rack it have never been in a shooting.
When you get that adrenaline dump into your system, the last thing you need is to start racking your gun as your fine motor skills go the poop, and you may already have blood, water, snow or what ever on your hands.
A dumb idea which is a carry over from the military way of carrying. The military could get away with it, as they pretty much know when they are going to get into the fight.
All these guys who say they will have time to rack it have never been in a shooting.
When you get that adrenaline dump into your system, the last thing you need is to start racking your gun as your fine motor skills go the poop, and you may already have blood, water, snow or what ever on your hands.
A dumb idea which is a carry over from the military way of carrying. The military could get away with it, as they pretty much know when they are going to get into the fight.
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OWB is just not really practicable for me. With the temperatures we have here in Florida it is kinda easy to spot when you carry OWB. If I would carry OWB I would have to wear some crazy long shirts to cover my firearm up looking ridiculous. I mean we wear T-shirts and that's it. I have some jackets in the closet I have not taken out for at least 2 years
fullmetal1911
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Why carry a gun if it isn't ready to be put into action. IMHO the gun is not "loaded" unless there is a round in the chamber, and carrying an unloaded gun is just not smart. People tend to assume that they will have all the time in the world to draw the gun and rack the slide, with zero thought given to the possibility of being in a struggle, one hand injured, or possibly using their off hand to fend off their attacker. Then what?
My personal method of carry has always been one in the chamber, topped off magazine and safety disengaged (if it has one and is NOT a SA such as my old P238). Both my Shield and BG380 get carried with the safety off. I typically holster the gun with the safety on and then reach between the gun and leather of the holster and click it back off.
I understand that some people don't feel "comfortable" carrying a gun that is ready to fire, my suggestion is to seek more training and a better understanding of how firearms operate. If you aren't comfortable carrying a loaded firearm then you should really ask yourself if you should be carrying a firearm at all.
Again, this is all my OPINION, but why even bothered trying to be prepared for a bad situation if you are going to put yourself at an automatic disadvantage. Seems to defeat the purpose if you ask me.
My personal method of carry has always been one in the chamber, topped off magazine and safety disengaged (if it has one and is NOT a SA such as my old P238). Both my Shield and BG380 get carried with the safety off. I typically holster the gun with the safety on and then reach between the gun and leather of the holster and click it back off.
I understand that some people don't feel "comfortable" carrying a gun that is ready to fire, my suggestion is to seek more training and a better understanding of how firearms operate. If you aren't comfortable carrying a loaded firearm then you should really ask yourself if you should be carrying a firearm at all.
Again, this is all my OPINION, but why even bothered trying to be prepared for a bad situation if you are going to put yourself at an automatic disadvantage. Seems to defeat the purpose if you ask me.
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