Confirmed production nos. on 45 CQB models

[swmetal]

OK, all, I am pretty sure its serial # is the PCZ0186 identified by Earl. Now the big questions is how much is it worth - Is it worth the same, more, or much more than the production ones with CQB serial numbers?

I am trying to decide if I should go for it...

 

[vigil617]

swmetal,

From what I gather, a pistol likely to be the one you are looking at was once owned by a Forum member who described it in 2010 as a "170105 CQB proto with front NS". He did not give the serial number, but the product code and the fact it was a prototype correspond with the pistol identified by Earl as PCZ 0186, a 4566 CQB all stainless model of which 91 were made.

The photo our member provided no longer exists on the thread, unfortunately, and since that member has sold some of his collection of Performance Center pistols, what you are seeing could likely have been part of his collection at one time. I would guess it looks very similar to the one in member wlp624's group photo posted above, on the right side of the picture. I also would guess that it does not have the "45 CQB Performance Center" banner on the left side, and instead just has "Smith & Wesson, Springfield, MA, USA" on there.

IMHO, a pre-production model doesn't have a premium attached to its value except to the extent the rest of its series is worth a premium due to rarity. Since the 4566 CQB all-stainless finish was only 91 units, and since what you have is basically that pistol, yours should be worth whatever the others are. Just my opinion; an extremely serious collector might pay more, but how much is anyone's guess.

The 4566 CQB stainless pistols, in my opinion, are worth a bit more than either of the 4563 CQBs, and less than the 4566 CQB with blackened slide in all stainless, as only perhaps 20 of those were made.

Depending on condition and what comes with it, I'd guess PCZ 0186 is worth in the $1,500 to $2,000 range to someone who knows what it is. Hard to nail it down any closer than that, though.

 

[swmetal]

Thanks for the info vigil617. I was hoping the pre-production being a one-off might bring a nice premium over the production CQBs. Now I have to decide if I should make the investment in it.

 

[vigil617]

I hope some other folks will chime in on opinions of value on this pistol, too. I'd feel better if you were making your decision based on more than just what I am telling you. As I tried to emphasize, my estimate is a guess.

If you decide not to go for it, there are several folks on here who would love to get their hands on a 4566 CQB all stainless pistol, and I think they want the pistol itself more than they do the fact that it has a CQB billboard on it. (Does this one have the billboard, or like many of the other prototypes, is it "plain"?)

I wish I were in a position to buy one of these myself right now.

By the way: I'm more convinced now, having done some more research since this afternoon, that the PC 4566 that has the blackened slide (the one I posted a picture of, with serial number PCZ 01xx), is one of the approximately 20 that were ordered for an LA agency in 1997 and received by them in 1998. These are for all practical purposes 4566 CQB pistols, but are not marked as such because they were a special order before the CQB-labeled pistols came into being. I saw a post from a Forum member who owned one of that group, who provided the rest of the information I have included here, and it seems rock-solid.

 

[vigil617]

Today I found pictures of one of the Performance Center 4566 prototypes or special order guns from the PCZ series, which included the 20 or so PC 4566 pistols with blackened slides that went to the agency in Los Angeles in 1998. These pictures show the entire serial number though: PCZ 0196.

I found these online in the archives of a gun dealer, and the record indicates the pistol was pre-owned, had a titanium bushing, and sold for close to $1,000. However, no date of the sale is provided, so this doesn't help us much with a 2015 valuation on this pistol or ones like it in the PCZ series.

Here are the photos for your enjoyment. A PC 4566 of any kind -- prototype, special order, or labeled CQB model -- is a thing of beauty:

 

[skjos]

Also, skjos's spreadsheet of Performance Center Third Gens lists a PC 4566 that had an attached rail. Don't know anything more about that, including serial number range.

Come out, come out, wherever you are!

The PC 4566 listed on the chart is the one that was included in the "Combat Handguns" article; I added a bit more to the spreadsheet description.

Also, for the complete Combat Handgun's article see here:

www.skjos.net - /sw/PC4566/

 

[mustang2]

Would the preproduction CQB 4566 serial number PCZ0186 have any additional value over the 90 production CQB 4566's? What would be a current market value for these in average condition today?

 

[swmetal]

Did you buy PCZ0186? I saw it a number of months ago for sale and really wanted to add it to my collection but the price was just too high, and at or above what I thought market value should be.

From the info I gathered, there was likely no value premium for the pre-production PCZ.

I am sure you will enjoy it if you did or are going to buy it.

 

[18DAI]

I own PCZ0331 the pistol used in the American Handgunner magazine shown above. 5 years ago I had a local collector/dealer appraise it for insurance purposes.

Back then he put a value of $2500 on it, then offered me $2k for it. He then advised me to put it up on Gunbroker- with my copy of the magazine. He said it would bring "crazy money" there with its verifiable history. I've not done that, yet. But I think that the PCZ prefix adds to the value of these already scarce guns. YMMV. Regards 18DAI

 

[mustang2]

Thanks for the info. I ended up bringing it home. Looking to pick up a few factory mags.

 

[Rock185]

i just came across this thread and sure appreciate the information on the CQBs and the other PC guns. I have the all black alloy frame CQB #66 and the all stainless #192. I learned about these just after they went out of production. IIRC my local dealer got the black alloy one from Lew Horton and I tracked down the stainless NIB at an out of state dealer and had a local FFL receive it. The black one was my full time duty gun for about a year and a half. It never malfunctioned in any way, shape or form. Confidence inspiring for sure. The stainless is LNIB. I doubt I have a hundred rounds through that one.

 

[nohobandit]

For what it's worth, I am posting one of the LAPD 4566 "Unicorn" pistols for sale in the classifieds section.

 

[vigil617]

I came across an interesting post in a later thread about the CQB guns that included a photo of all four (!) models together. Member b_san posted it as #5 in this thread

.45 PC CQB Article

Looks to me like "the elusive 170127" is shown at bottom right in the photo. What a group!

 

[18DAI]

I thought I would post these two CQBs here as one is a Prototype and one has been modified by Vito at the Performance Center before he retired.

The all black 4563 CQB Prototype was the one of one gun used in the 2001 American Handgunner article. If you notice the slide, it is cut like the PC Shorty 45 pistols. Which sets it apart from the production guns.

The stainless 4566 CQB was purchased with the intent of it becoming a duty pistol. So Back around 2012-2013 IIRC I contacted Vito and asked him if he would do the work. I wanted a forged spurless hammer and Novak Night sights installed. After some discussion and me having to hunt up a forged spurless hammer I sent it off to Vito at the PC.

He did outstanding work. A true craftsman. I shot this 4566 CQB yesterday. The fellow who I was giving a lesson to asked to try it. He was amazed by the smooth trigger and startling accuracy. He spent the rest of the range session trying to buy it off me. Nope. Not for sale - at this time.

Anyways, here are a couple of "one off" Performance Center 45CQBs. Regards 18DAI

 

[vigil617]

LOVE the way your black one-off has the billboard smaller and partly framed by the "Shorty" style slide cuts, 18! What a keeper!

Not to take anything away from the rare all-stainless CQB with its PC modifications, either!

Worth turning the laptop around for!!!

 

[18DAI]

Sorry vigil617! I tried for 30 minutes to get them to post right side up, as they are on my IPad. No go! Regards 18DAI

 

[vigil617]

Sorry vigil617! I tried for 30 minutes to get them to post right side up, as they are on my IPad. No go! Regards 18DAI

Here....fixed it for ya!

 

[18DAI]

Bumping this for a member who was asking about these fine guns. This should go in the notable threads section. Great info!

I still use my stainless CQB as a fun range toy. Regards 18DAI

 

[Erocksmash]

Bumping this for a member who was asking about these fine guns. This should go in the notable threads section. Great info!

I still use my stainless CQB as a fun range toy. Regards 18DAI

Thanks 18 I've been on a deep dive into these... I bought the 2$ AHG 2001 issue and am reading that over as well.

 

[Erocksmash]

The PC 4566 listed on the chart is the one that was included in the "Combat Handguns" article; I added a bit more to the spreadsheet description.

Also, for the complete Combat Handgun's article see here:

www.skjos.net - /sw/PC4566/

I completely missed this reading threw, I was under the impression 1 hand gun magazine did a review and who knew "production" Guns would vary so much...

I would have preferred a rail, but glad they scraped the adjustable rear, wonder where that exact gun is now