Controversy over open carry

[Bratastic007]

Not sure if any of you have seen this recent news item or not. I submit it here without comment (for now), but it is worth a read.

Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun - Stossel's Take Blog - FOXBusiness.com

 

[27145]

The Cops are wrong, they should know the laws. It was obviously a set up. The Cops should be disciplined and the DA should not go after him, even though I personally think he is a douche.

It is only my opinion, but I don't believe in open carry. I feel if you qualify for a gun permit, you should be able to conceal carry.

 

[USAF385]

Unfortunately, the legality of open carry is often questioned by police here in PA... just one reason I don't do it.

I didn't listen but read the transcript in the article. It sounds like Fiorino did a good job keeping his cool.

 

[speedingbullet]

A classic example of arbitrary abuse of power by an officer....and a DA.

Then law enforcement is baffled when they discover even the "good guys" perceive them as the "enemy". After you live long enough you learn that Law Enforcement is not on your side nor even necessarily on the side of the law and justice...they are on their own side. Therefore the average citizen needs to behave and act accordingly. Fiorino did the right thing by exposing the incident and posting his recording on youtube. Sometimes fire must be fought with fire.

 

[photoman]

The fact that a uniformed police officer, of all people, got the drop on this guy goes to show how dangerous open carry is.

 

[ladder13]

The fact that a uniformed police officer, of all people, got the drop on this guy goes to show how dangerous open carry is.

Yep............

 

[redsfan2]

I'm kind of back and forth on this. I don't know if this was a set-up or if the guy was being prepared. The officer had no reason to point a gun at the guy in the first place. Once he did the guy could have setted the matter a lot quicker and easier by obeying the directions of the officer. After the officer felt safer and in control of the situation ( he obviously didn't initially ) ... and the matter of legality was settled.... the guy could have asked for the officers name and filed a complaint IF the officer was still being a jerk. Guy may or may not have been trying to prove a pont ... but getting shot isn't a real good way to go about it if he was.

 

[Bratastic007]

I agree that it's a bad idea to not immediately comply with a police officer's commands. If I were in this guy's shoes, being realistic with myself, I'd have probably folded faster than Superman on laundry day.

That said, I am glad that there are guys like this who do refuse to follow commands from cops like that. If he had simply complied, we'd have never heard about this story, and the cop would go on to live his life like every other day before. Because the open-carry guy used questionable judgement and pressed the issue (while still remaining calm and compliant within reason), this problem has come to the light of national attention, where it can be addressed and corrected.

It's unrealistic that abusive authority which never gets challenged will somehow self-correct.

And I completely agree on the point regarding open carry. This guy may be carrying his pistol for self defense, but it won't do him much good if he has the situational awareness of an iPod-wearing turnip.

 

[Old cop]

Regardless of where you stand on this issue open carry in our society will always make people feel threatened and attract unwanted attention from LE. As a retired LEO I too would very cautiously approach someone like this.

Open carry only surrenders tactical advantage to the bad guys and I believe it to be an unwise practice at best.

 

[P&R Fan]

The fact that he knew the statute shows he had studied the law and was prepared. Good for him. The fact he had a recorder ready to go shows he was anticipating this type of encounter in anticipation of his 15 minutes of fame.
I am a licensed Private Investigator and I have secretly recorded many conversations I was a party to. I planned for it far in advance. So did this guy.
As someone who has had a concealed carry permit for 26 years I would never consider open carry in an environment like that. As a previous post mentioned, the tactical advantage is gone. Plus most people are still totally unaware, even when carrying. I could just see somebody wanting to make a point snatching the holstered gun. IMO this is a really bad idea. This guy could have been shot........but hey, he made his point.
Jim

 

[Frank237]

Regardless of where you stand on this issue open carry in our society will always make people feel threatened and attract unwanted attention from LE. As a retired LEO I too would very cautiously approach someone like this.

Open carry only surrenders tactical advantage to the bad guys and I believe it to be an unwise practice at best.

Good points from Old Cop.

The subject refusing to comply to the cops orders...stupid...very stupid. His 15 minutes of fame would have come at a very high price had the cop fired on him.

After discussing this with a CCW friend from Philly...many people there feel BOTH the cop and Fiorino were WRONG. Interesting.

We have out of state hunters who would openly carry here in MT every hunting season. The ability to flex a freedom they probably didn't have in their home state.

It was a PITA from an LE standpoint. Calls throughout the season from citizens , but mostly shop owners about the "guy with a gun" now parked outside my store. Wasted a lot of time and miles responding to the calls.

Going to be interesting to see how the Philly situation ultimately shakes out. I can see someone right now...with a chip on their shoulder against Authority...or simply wanting to play "Tort Claim LOTTO"...setting up a Philly cop with an open carry scenario stretched to the limit...hoping for a lawsuit and a big payoff.

FN in MT

 

[G.T. Smith]

Agreed

Regardless of where you stand on this issue open carry in our society will always make people feel threatened and attract unwanted attention from LE. As a retired LEO I too would very cautiously approach someone like this.

Open carry only surrenders tactical advantage to the bad guys and I believe it to be an unwise practice at best.

I don't believe you can say it any better than that. Even if it is legal in your area, open carry, in my opinion, is for in the woods, hunting, as it gives the game a sporting chance of survival when they see the weapon.
Peace,
gordon

 

[bitstream]

I don't believe you can say it any better than that. Even if it is legal in your area, open carry, in my opinion, is for in the woods, hunting, as it gives the game a sporting chance of survival when they see the weapon.
Peace,
gordon

No way, just get one them thar camo covered guns so the deer can't see it when you cap him. Be sure to hold the gun sideways too!

 

[27145]

This was a set up from the get go. Unfortunately the Cop bit. Open carry is fine near hunting area's or farm areas, but not in a populated City.

 

[Bratastic007]

This was a set up from the get go. Unfortunately the Cop bit. Open carry is fine near hunting area's or farm areas, but not in a populated City.

Open carry in a populated area (in my humble opinion) is a good example of an activity which is Constitutional, but not at all smart.

I'm glad I have the right to do it, but I don't think I'd ever do it.

 

[thndrchiken]

There are two trains of thought here, #1 and what should be most important is that the cop should have known the law concerning open carry, or at the very least his supervisor should have. In more areas than not the police don't even know or understand the law the are supposed to be upholding. and #2, Is this guy stupid, just the obvious reasons already noted why open carry is not a good idea in a populated area like this. While I would enjoy to be able to open carry, I limit it to the woods and when fishing. That was just an invitation for unwanted attention or in this case it was wanted.

 

[Lost Lake]

Remember in two states open carry is all we have.....

 

[Deputy25]

While I support both concealed and open carry of personal firearms, I choose to carry concealed. That said, there are a group of individuals at pafoa.com who believe that initiating confrontation with LEOs makes them "patriots". There are better ways to educate and inform LEOs who are not aware of the legalities of open carry. The individual in this case clearly expected confrontation with the police, as evidenced by his carry of a recording device. The public at large doesn't really understand this issue, and largely sits on the fence. I believe that incidents such as this one do not further the cause of legal weapons carry and exercise of our 2nd amendment rights.

 

[mkk41]

There's a faction in PA I call the 'Open Carry Clowns'. They go 'trolling' in stores , shopping centers , resturants , to the city , and even set up meeting in public places while carrying openly , get those who don't know(anti's) to call the cops , and have a forum (http://forum.pafoa.org/) where they all brag about their encounters (http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/) and pat each other on the butt for 'raising awareness'. One (might be this clown) got his pistol confiscated by Philly PD , and begged other members to 'loan' him another gun to carry while he got his back.

 

[ladder13]

There's a faction in PA I call the 'Open Carry Clowns'. They go 'trolling' in stores , shopping centers , resturants , to the city , and even set up meeting in public places while carrying openly , get those who don't know(anti's) to call the cops , and have a forum (Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum) where they all brag about their encounters (Open Carry) and pat each other on the butt for 'raising awareness'. One (might be this clown) got his pistol confiscated by Philly PD , and begged other members to 'loan' him another gun to carry while he got his back.

Biggest mistake he made was owning only one gun.

Btw, I find it very hard to believe that in Pa, and Philly in particular, the police do not know open carry is legal. Doesn't word get around? You would think as big an issue as it is, with numerous folks getting arrested, that the police aren't aware of the law. Makes you wonder if they're doing so, arresting people, on purpose.