DAO vs ...

[jeffsmith]

I have owned & shot a 3rd generation DA/SA 3914 for several years

Lately, after shooting my new (to me) SW9M and a few DAO pistols rented at the range
(including an M&P9C)

What I've found is I actually prefer DAO

Anyone else have a similar (or different) experience?

Advantages vs Disadvantages of DAO ?

 

[jeffsmith]

I have owned & shot a 3rd generation DA/SA 3914 for several years

Lately, after shooting my new (to me) SW9M and a few DAO pistols rented at the range
(including an M&P9C)

What I've found is I actually prefer DAO

Anyone else have a similar (or different) experience?

Advantages vs Disadvantages of DAO ?

 

[vanya]

Greetings,
I feel the same way. It started for me with the ourchase of my Keltec P11. Then a SW9ve. It's hard to explain but perhaps the diberate trigger pull is part of it. Once adpated to that it just feels like I have more control. I don't shoot in any kind of competition or anything but the triggers on both are quite good. Maybe I'm just used to it and yes I have done the fluff and buff, more on the P11. I keep them both clean and lubed.

 

[Beemerguy53]

I've never been able to get used to DA/SA pistols...I've owned a few of them and sold them all.

I like a consistent trigger pull from shot to shot. I have a number of single-action pistols, (1911s and Browning High Powers) a striker-fired pistol (Kahr K9), and two Beretta DAO pistols, a 92D Centurian and a 96D Centurian. Though they all have very different feels to their triggers, I like them all, because they are consistent.

IMHO, DAO pistols are the best-kept secret in handgunning.

 

[Spotteddog]

FWIW,
The only autoloader I fired for the first 40 years was a 1911'. So much so in fact, that I automatically "sweep" the safety off, even in a D/A revolver? But, I am becoming a convert to a full DAO type bottom feeder action. The TDA's are a big PITA to me. I want something consistent each and every time. And there are few things safer than a full length DAO pull.
I still carry 1911's from time to time, but my next will be a hi-cap 9 or .40 with DAO and no thumb lever.

 

[KurtC]

I tried a TDA pistol back in 1983, when the army was getting ready to replace the 1911. I found the idea of shooting a double tap with two different trigger pulls to be the stupidest handgun idea anyone ever came up with.

I stuck with the 1911 pattern until 1990, when S&W came out with their DAO .45's. I will also use Beretta "D" models.

 

[Golddog]

I find both TDA's and DAO's dangerous - they're so hard to shoot well that they could get you killed. I much prefer SA's or good striker-fired guns like Glocks and M&P's.

 

[Spotteddog]

Golddog,
In my limited vocabulary of understanding of so called "modern" semi-auto actions, I usually refer to the striker fired types as DAO. But it's not because of any deep understanding of them. Rather, it's due to the distance the trigger moves in order to fire initially. That's the way my ancient reptile brain needs to sort out D/A vs. S/A? I understand that the speed is in the much shorter reset distance. Sorry for the inaccurate description?

 

[Golddog]

Spotteddog: I'm all thumbs, so I stay out of the internals of firearms, and I won't pass myself off as knowledgeable about the mechanics of various trigger systems. However, in my experience, Glocks and M&P's have decent trigger pulls compared to, say, a DAO like the S&W 3953/4 (the WORST pull I've ever found on any quality firearm) or the initial pull on a Beretta 92F or S&W 3913 TDA.

There are crappy striker triggers, such as the Sigma, mediocre ones (Kahr CW9), or really easy to use types, as on my Glock 26. My Glock is as good as it gets this side of a 1911 or a nice CZ. Because it's so sweet, it requires careful attention during holstering, but I'd rather worry about that than about where my first shot would be going in an emergency with standard DA's.

 

[Old Navy]

Having recently come back to revolvers and never owning a DAO auto before buying a M&P 45 about year and a half ago. It had what seem like an ok trigger but nothing to compare with my 1911's I have had in the past.

My 1086 however I would carry anyday over my G29 if I was working the street, if I were going to the sand box I would take the Glock. I do like the safety of no safety and just pulling the trigger. A rather long pull by Dan Wesson revolver standards, but smooth and always the same. But most of all no sudden forgetting to thumb the safety

 

[rollback88]

DAO is ok since it is consistent. DA/SA is horrible. The striker systems like M&P are ideal, IMHO for a defensive gun. A reasonable pull with clean break on the first shot (safe - make sure the first shot is intentional) and light, crisp pops after that.

--jcd

 

[Pioneer461]

Originally posted by rollback88:
DAO is ok since it is consistent. DA/SA is horrible. --jcd

Training, training, training. I prefer DA/SA, but then I'm old school.

 

[Golddog]

I don't follow the "training, training" argument. If some guns are easier to shoot well without lengthy, expensive (ammo) training, why go to much less user-friendly DA triggers, aside from alleged safety reasons?

 

[Bullman]

I must admit that I shoot my Glock's better than my DA/SA Smiths. I have wanted to acquire one of the DAO Smiths to see what it was like, but haven't been able to do it, the used market is pretty dry around these parts, I would probably have to go to Roanoke.

 

[bmcgilvray]

In automatics I like cocked and locked. I loathe DAO triggers.

 

[varoadking]

What I've found is I actually prefer DAO

Anyone else have a similar (or different) experience?

Yes, indeed...DAO's represent the highest percentage of my modest collection, with 9 S&W's currently a part of that.

My experience is quite different from golddog...my Smith DAO actions are like butter. That said, I do shoot targets somewhat more accurately with my custom 1911's and SiG SRT's.

I like Glock's, and the SiG DAK as well...and the Kahr Elite trigger is second to none...but for a total package - Smith's top my list...

 

[Frizzman]

I carried revolvers, M10 and M64, during my time as a LEO. I always shot those DAO. So, the long, heavy trigger pull is comfortable to me. A major issue as a LEO was that there were numerous instances where one would draw and point the gun at a subject but not need to shoot. Despite the training to the contrary, it is really easy to put your finger on the trigger when excited. A light trigger pull could make the difference between a hairy situation that ended in an arrest and a LOT of problems. I don't know how much that applies to the civilian world but I still prefer a long, smooth, consistant and heavier trigger because of that...

 

[smith10]

I have used and preferred TDA autos. Double taps have never been a problem for me.

 

[kbm6893]

TDA for me. I like the option of a SA shot. Striker fired guns TO ME are more dangerous then any other gun. No hammer to rest youyr thumb on when holstering to further prevent ND. No safety. I used to carry a 5946 when still on the job, and I MUCH prefer the 5906 to it.

 

[Old Navy]

Best DAO automatic ever made, bar none.

Edited to add "automatic".

 

[Spotteddog]

Old Navy,
A question if you would be so kind?
Since I (hate to admit it?) know next to nothing of the S&W line of autoloaders, what is the number on the little beauty you pictured above?

 

[varoadking]

Originally posted by Spotteddog:
Old Navy,
A question if you would be so kind?
Since I (hate to admit it?) know next to nothing of the S&W line of autoloaders, what is the number on the little beauty you pictured above?

That's a 1086...like this one...

 

[Spotteddog]

LOVE the sights, RoadKing!

 

[seangit]

VAROADKING

What kind of sights are those?

 

[Old Navy]

As much as I hate to say it the 1086 is gone now, showed it to one too many people and someone took it off my hands.

I will miss the gun, but the arthritis won't allow me to shoot the big automatics anymore. So I passed the beauty on to a collector & shooter.

I picked up a NIB Five seveN 5.7x28 that is a lot easier on the old hands.

 

[Cruiser RN]

I totally agree with you there.I have recently gone from 15 yrs of Double Action revolver shooting to the CS9 which is double action /single action.When I first started shooting the semi-auto the DA first shot was right on the money and I was pulling my SA shots to the right,( I am Left Handed).After about 700 rounds the first shot is dead on and I instictively take up the trigger slack to the point of hammer release on my second and subsequent shots making those shots as accurate and much faster than traditional DAO shooting.Like anything it is a new learned skill and came with Training,Training and more Training.......God Bless....Mike

Originally posted by Pioneer461:

Originally posted by rollback88:
DAO is ok since it is consistent. DA/SA is horrible. --jcd

Training, training, training. I prefer DA/SA, but then I'm old school.

 

[BighandEd]

DAO for primary carry. I'm not a big gun enthusiast and I don't want to have to think a lot about my tool if/when I ever really need to use it so my main carry guns are DAO.
I am not as accurate with them at distance as I am with a 1911.. Imean if i'm taking all day long to pull the trigger, ok, but in decent drills..
anyway I started with DAO when I first got a carry gun and I tend to prefer them today.
My two mostly likely to be on me a Smith CS40 DAO model and a North American arms 32acp guardian DAO. If i ever needed to pass a gun to my wife or family member there would be no worry about their operating it properly (is it a smith..do i flip the safety up instead of down like a 1911? etc.) just grab the gun , point at the bad guy and pull the trigger.

 

[varoadking]

Originally posted by seangit:
VAROADKING

What kind of sights are those?

Trijicon...

http://www.trijicon-inc.com/User/parts/products1.cfm?Pa..._row=12&categoryID=7

 

[Poohgyrr]

To me anyway:

The different manufacturers have different DAO's.

So far, Glock with a NY1 trigger spring & standard connector works best for me - next to the special trigger job a frend had done to his G23. (That G23 has the trigger of a GOOD S&W K frame.) Sig's DAK (226 & 220) simply is horrible - the tip of the trigger chews my finger to pieces. A good, smooth, & clean Smith 38 revolver in DAO works fine. Berreta's double stack pistols are too fat and their DAO is simply not an option.


On the other hand, S&W's 3rd gen TDA's have been good to me. I have a couple and plan to keep them.

Freely given opinions and worth every cent.......

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by jeffsmith:
I have owned & shot a 3rd generation DA/SA 3914 for several years

Lately, after shooting my new (to me) SW9M and a few DAO pistols rented at the range
(including an M&P9C)

What I've found is I actually prefer DAO

Anyone else have a similar (or different) experience?

Advantages vs Disadvantages of DAO ?

Talk about confusing terminology:

DA should be where the pull of the trigger actually raises the hammer or pushes the firing pin (striker) from complete rest to full cock and then releases it to fire the piece.

SA should be where the trigger merely moves a sear or similar device out of the way allowing the already fully cocked hammer or firing pin (striker) to fly forward to fire the piece.

DAO should be where you have DA on every shot.

Unfortunately, everyone wants their action to be a DAO, because that is what police chiefs (who usually know very little about guns, as do armorers, for that matter) want. Thus, some designs have partially pre-cocked hammers, firing pins (strikers), etc., and call themselves DAO even though the trigger stroke does not start the hammer or striker back from a fully rested position.

S&W DAOs and the M&P are like this, as is Glock, Springfield XD and others. Para-Ordnance and HK each use a two-piece hammer leaving the visible part down, while the rotating drum is nearly fully cocked, but invisible and inside the weapon. The trigger raises the visible part of the hammer which then catches and releases the rotating drum, and since the drum is the part under spring tension, it is the part driving the visible hammer to the firing pin at full speed.

The HK and Para system, as well as the Cylinder and Slide kit for the High Power and 1911 are all based on the Browning Fast Action of the 1980s US Military trials, which in turn was first used commercially by the South Koreans on the Daewoo.

The advantage of the pre-cocked system of S&W, Glock, Para and HK is the light trigger pull to fire the gun.

The disadvantage is the necessity to have the slide operate to re-set the mechanism.

If you like the DAO, more power to you. Many like it and say it reminds them of a DA revolver, which gives a "surprise break" enhancing accurate shooting. It does not really do it for me, and I suspect that many who use it like it because they think it is "safer" than a cocked 1911. I doubt that it is, and the Australian SAS for years carried their High Powers cocked and unlocked (Condition Zero) and never were known for alot of accidental discharges. Cocked and locked works fine. Don't believe me? Unload your 1911, put it in condition one and carry for a week. Count how many times the nammer falls on its own. I will bet the answer is zero.