Dealing with a CC from a LEO view

[old curmudgeon]

Time for an attorney. It was an illegal search when they ran the serial numbers on the gun along with several other things wrong here.

VA state troopers regularly run gun serial numbers.

Pain in the *** because it holds you up for another 20 minutes or so.



If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

 

[38Airweight]

As the ‘right to carry’ spreads across the United States, many law enforcement agencies and police officers express their unease — and for some, outright alarm — at the idea of citizens carrying concealed weapons.

Never a warning since I’ve started carrying, always a ticket.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Good stuff, for sure. I was particularly interested in the section on common behaviors of gun carriers. For bad guys, CCW's and Cops it seems that a common habit is "swivel head", or constant checking for threats. Heightened awareness. Also the remark that only highly trained personnel can overcome these tells.

Has me wondering how do I stay alert without giving that appearance?

Out
West

Because of my job and training...I have "swivel head" and have had for years. I also sit with my back to the wall if at all possible. I did this LONG before CCW. It isn't paranoia...I'm just cautious. Trouble for some reason always seems to land in my lap..I like to be prepared when it does.

 

[jlrhiner]

Because of my job and training...I have "swivel head" and have had for years. I also sit with my back to the wall if at all possible. I did this LONG before CCW. It isn't paranoia...I'm just cautious. Trouble for some reason always seems to land in my lap..I like to be prepared when it does.

I like to think of it as "Personality Disorder Magnetism". If there is a screw loose in my general area, I'm goin to meet them.

 

[blackflag]

"Manner of Dress
Concealed carry folks and cops seem to go to the same tailor — generally speaking, most will not look like dirt bags. They are generally conservatives in viewpoint and tend to dress the part. Many are professional people who will be more neatly dressed. "

I generally dress like a bum when I'm not working, when I wear a suit.

 

[27145]

I wasnt impressed at all, to tell you the truth. It seemed like he had it down pat on how to detect a good guy with a gun. Sounds like he needs work on detecting a bad guy with a gun.

I have a news flash for him, good guys can look like perps too. In 20 years, I have never known a Cop to buy an actual gunbelt for off duty use. I felt like I wasted 2 minutes of my life reading it.

When I was still a Cop, I would have loved to be advised if someone had a CCW. After checking the CCP, I could relax, knowing this person is generally an upstanding citizen. To be advised and then dress down the woman for having one, while making her throw it in the trunk pisses me off. I only gave tickets to people who had nasty attitudes. I was fortunate in that there was plenty of crime to address, tickets were a nuisance for me to write.

I think it is always best to advise an officer you have a ccw and advise them where the weapon is. I would also advise people when being pulled over at night, to pull to the right, turn on your hazards, roll down your window, TURN ON YOUR INTERIOR LIGHTS, shut off your car and keep your hands on the steering wheel. If you choose, tell them you have a ccw and ask permission before making any movement.

99 % of the Cops out there are good, but there always is a douche lurking. It is like any profession.

 

[The Big D]

Spot on!!! Good post and reiterates what I have been preaching to the choir for several years. I also note your comments re: a "gun belt" and wholly agree. I have toted a gun for 35+ years and have rarely had a day when I didn't CCW. I have never worn any kind of belt that remotely resembles a gun belt whilst in mufti. I have found that Trafalgar, Coach, or similar quality DRESS belts are more than sufficient.

Thank you again for your post, 27145.

Be safe.

I wasnt impressed at all, to tell you the truth. It seemed like he had it down pat on how to detect a good guy with a gun. Sounds like he needs work on detecting a bad guy with a gun.

I have a news flash for him, good guys can look like perps too. In 20 years, I have never known a Cop to buy an actual gunbelt for off duty use. I felt like I wasted 2 minutes of my life reading it.

When I was still a Cop, I would have loved to be advised if someone had a CCW. After checking the CCP, I could relax, knowing this person is generally an upstanding citizen. To be advised and then dress down the woman for having one, while making her throw it in the trunk pisses me off. I only gave tickets to people who had nasty attitudes. I was fortunate in that there was plenty of crime to address, tickets were a nuisance for me to write.

I think it is always best to advise an officer you have a ccw and advise them where the weapon is. I would also advise people when being pulled over at night, to pull to the right, turn on your hazards, roll down your window, TURN ON YOUR INTERIOR LIGHTS, shut off your car and keep your hands on the steering wheel. If you choose, tell them you have a ccw and ask permission before making any movement.

99 % of the Cops out there are good, but there always is a douche lurking. It is like any profession.

 

[617X10]

It's a backhanded way to advertise tactical gear, in my opinion. Mindless drivel.

 

[redsfan2]

Here in New York we are required to immediately inform an officer if we are carrying. In my opinion ... there just isn't any way to say ." Oh .. by the way I've got a gun ". No matter how you mean it or how good your intentions are .. it comes out a little threatening. I usually don't do anything to get stopped .. but just in case I have my drivers license and my ccw permit together so that I will be able to hand them both to him at the same time. Haven't had to yet ... but it seemed to me like it would make for an easier transition.

 

[MotorCityGun]

I got stopped earlier this year for running an "orange" light. It happened during a rainy (winter) evening at around 8 pm, while traffic was light but it was dark out. I followed the "book" to the T, i.e. shut engine off, flashers on, dome lights on, roll window down, have documents ready and hands on the steering wheel. The first thing I said to him after he said "good evening" was, "officer, I'm armed", then handed him my driver's license, registration, insurance and CPL. He said, "OK, thanks" and started walking back to his cruiser, but before he got in, he came back to my car and handed me back my CPL and asked me where "it" was. "It" happened to be in my glove compartment because I hadn't reholstered it after attending my nephew's concert at the local high school, so I pointed at the glove compartment and told him, "it's in there". As he went back and sat in his cruiser for what felt like an hour but was actually about 12 mins, I thought for sure he was going to ticket me. I even told my wife that I thought he was going to issue me a citation. When he came back to my car, he handed me my paper, and all he said was, "OK sir, please be careful". I was dumbfounded, but not surprised. I shouted the same back to him and went home with a smile on my face.

 

[standerson]

When I was on the road, if you acted like a gentleman/lady, I treated you like one, whether or not you were armed.

The only extra question I asked was "What are you carrying and when is the last time you were at the range?"

The first part was for my interest. The 2nd was because if you are going to carry a weapon, you had better know how to use it.

 

[blujax01]

Like anything, preparedness is key. I practiced this statement many times and when I got pulled over, it came out smooth, loud, and clear. In Ohio by law, this must be the first words out of your mouth when he/she approaches your vehicle. (Window down - hands at 10 and 2, please).

"Hello Officer. It is my duty to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit and I am armed. How would you like to proceed?"

They'll take it from there ...

 

[bitstream]

Here's a question I don't understand.

On a previous thread on this forum, a poster asked the LEO if they had ever caught a "bad guy" who had a holster. With nearly unanimous agreement, every single LEO responding said "no". I believe only one or two had ever encountered a BG who had a holster. Many of the replies said they had worked LE for 20-30 years or so. That adds up to only a couple of BGs with holsters in literally a couple of centuries of LEO direct experience.

This seems to imply strongly that, statistically, if you are a LEO and encounter a person with a holstered weapon, the odds are very nearly 100% that the person is not a criminal. So, why treat CCW and OC people suspiciously? If the statistical odds clearly show that they are almost certainly a "good guy", why treat them poorly?

In another thread there was the guy who was walking OC when stopped and treated poorly. One LEO here on the board responded with the rhetorical question of how we'd feel if the LEO ignored a guy with a gun walking down the street who then walked into a bank and robbed it. But, statistically, there is almost zero likelyhood of that occuring. An actual bank robber would never walk down the street with his weapon in full view. Also, the holstered weapon is not a trait of bad guys.

This seems to be a case of LE thinking emotionally and not mathematically. Logically, you can ignore OC and CCW with holsters walking along and almost certainly not have any problems. The ones you apparently need to worry about are the ones hiding a weapon without a holster in their pockets, pants, etc. They are also almost certainly not going to tell you they have a weapon and/or present a permit.

 

[BenR]

Like anything, preparedness is key. I practiced this statement many times and when I got pulled over, it came out smooth, loud, and clear. In Ohio by law, this must be the first words out of your mouth when he/she approaches your vehicle. (Window down - hands at 10 and 2, please).

"Hello Officer. It is my duty to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit and I am armed. How would you like to proceed?"

They'll take it from there ...

Exactly. I can't count the number of times I read through the Ohio Attorney General's Concealed Carry Laws Manual:

If you are planning on carrying a concealed handgun while driving:

- Have your concealed carry license and another piece of valid government identifcation in your possession.
- Make sure the handgun is:
• In a holster secured on your person, or
• In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is inplain sightand has a closing mechanism such as a zipper, snap or buckle, or
• Securely encased by being stored in a closed, glovecompartment or vehicle console, or
• Locked in a case.

If you are pulled over and you are carrying a concealed handgun, remember the following:

• Before the offcer approaches, roll down your window and place your hands in plain view on the steering wheel.
• Calmly tell the offcer that you have a license to carry a concealed handgun and that you have a handgun with you. Ask if the officer has particular instructions concerning the handgun.
• Do not touch or attempt to touch your handgun unless specifically told to by the officer.
• Do not exit your vehicle unless specifically told to by the officer.
• Comply with all lawful orders given by the officer.

 

[Bratastic007]

• Comply with all lawful orders given by the officer.

What would be an example of an un-lawful order given by an officer?

 

[27145]

Bitstream, criminals adapt. In NYC they came out with a new law that all toy guns had to have an orange painted tip to denote that it was a toy. Guess what? The perps started painting the tips of their Mac 11's. If a criminal was in an area where open carry was allowed, he would get a holster to blend in with every one else.

I just wanted to answer your question, but I don't want to delve into the subject matter any longer since the moderators closed it.

I do want to say that I have great respect for citizens who own and carry firearms. I would hope that someday all 50 States will allow non felons to carry concealed and all States recognize out of State permits.

I apologize to everyone for my part in killing that thread.

 

[27145]

What would be an example of an un-lawful order given by an officer?

Things like "take off your clothes sweetheart"?

 

[bitstream]

Bitstream, criminals adapt. In NYC they came out with a new law that all toy guns had to have an orange painted tip to denote that it was a toy. Guess what? The perps started painting the tips of their Mac 11's. If a criminal was in an area where open carry was allowed, he would get a holster to blend in with every one else.

I just wanted to answer your question, but I don't want to delve into the subject matter any longer since the moderators closed it.

I do want to say that I have great respect for citizens who own and carry firearms. I would hope that someday all 50 States will allow non felons to carry concealed and all States recognize out of State permits.

I apologize to everyone for my part in killing that thread.

Thanks, I can buy that answer. I still don't think a man walking down the street with an OC should, all by itself, be a SWAT call out. I don't OC myself, but I see people who do down here in Georgia from time to time and nobody even reacts.

 

[Bratastic007]

Things like "take off your clothes sweetheart"?

How would you propose the person receiving the unlawful command respond to the officer?

 

[27145]

I would say they would refuse and make a complaint.