Derringer recoil

[ISCS Yoda]

I would be very careful using two hands to shoot a derringer. It is far too easy to let your support hand's index finger meander in front of the barrel.

As a general rule I find derringers extremely hard to cock and then shoot well and if the hammer is tricked out like for cowboy action side match competition then it's likely too easy to shoot.

I really don't like those single action derringers much.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

The guy in the video didn't bother to show us the target. With a flinch like they had, there might not have been any holes in it.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[forrestinmathews]

I have an ADC and a Bond both .45 Colt. Of the two, the Bond is the most accurate and friendly to shoot. I have fired 300 grain bullets out of the Bond and they were very stout and very accurate.
I find the ADC to shoot high and very high with light loads. I have not fired heavier bullets yet as they will impact even higher. The recoil is heavier in the ADC than the Bond with the same load.
The statement that you don't want a light trigger on a derringer is foolish one. Their factory pull weights impede their accuracy. You want a three pound trigger.

I've fired a few hundred rounds through my derringers. What do I know?
I know that:
Hollow points don't expand fired from these guns in .45 Colt.
Hard cast with a big meplat is your friend.
Carry a pen or rod that fits down the bore to eject stuck cases.
Practice regularly.

Also I'm a huge hypocrite. I decided against a .45 Colt two years ago and now have two. They were good deals and much cheaper than the American ordered in 10mm would have been. They're fun, but I feel the Bond is a better design.

 

[Onomea]

Those that like 'em, more power to ya. Not for me.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I appreciate all the replies.

 

[forrestinmathews]

People who carry these...
How much spare ammo are you carrying and how?
I'm carrying four spare rounds in a watch pocket. Seems like enough.

 

[gman51]

I will watch someone else shoot it and I darn straight wouldn't own one over a .22 cal.
The guns aren't cheap to buy and I can think of several other guns I would rather buy for the same $$. I am not fond of bone rattling hand cannons.

 

[forrestinmathews]

After all the heartbreak about the recoil, I feel inclined to comment further. I shoot the Mini in .45 Colt. That puts me at a minimum bullet weight of 150 grains for plinking ammo. I have run 200 and 300 grain bullets through it as well. You wouldn't want to shoot the 300's for very long, but the 200's and 150-160's are child's play. The cowboy action commercial loads are very, very enjoyable to shoot. For me things only became oppressive when I approached Ruger loads with a 300 grain bullet. As you may presume, you are innately aware that the gun has fired at this point. I feel like the recoil was similar to that of an Old Model Vaquero with a short barrel. I've fired magnum handguns and rifle caliber handguns and I still believe that the .357 scandium snubnosed revolver is worse than this gun has potential to be. I'm just not seeing the violence in the recoil to cause injury as long as proper firing grip is maintained.

 

[Lonegle57]

have one in 45/410, have shot a few 410 loads in it. It does let you know you have touched it off and would not want to shoot a box of shells in one sitting but can live with it. The tough thing is the different trigger pull, instead of your"normal" straight back pull on most guns it is more of a roll down pull and may be the reason you see many folks looking like they flinch, it takes getting used to and have not yet mastered the difference, have shot to many Smiths.

 

[forrestinmathews]

The tough thing is the different trigger pull, instead of your"normal" straight back pull on most guns it is more of a roll down pull and may be the reason you see many folks looking like they flinch, it takes getting used to and have not yet mastered the difference, have shot to many Smiths.

This is very true.

I have also found that the full cock notch is very deep and poorly fit in some models which leads to a long trigger pull. Due to the weight involved folks may be jerking to get through it much like a shotgun trigger.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My AD in .357. Not bad to shoot with.38's, but it stings a bit with 125 grain .357's. Doesn't hurt near as bad as a .454.

I also have an American Derringer in 357Mag. The gun isn't too bad to shoot with 145 357's (Silvertips) but the barrels are not regulated for any (I mean any) distance! at 21 feet the barrels print 17" apart. With a 158 LRN non+P in the upper and a 110 grain 357 STHP in the lower I can hold 3" 6 shot group at 21'. But very manageable.

I have a total of 6 derringers A Davis 22Mag, Two Davis 32 ACP, an American in 357, a High Standard double action in 22Mag, and American on the High Standard Double Action Design in 38 Special. The 2 double actions are the way to go. For under the table work: Pop-Pop that fast, drop the derringer and get the real gun out, before anyone knows what happened! (Learn to use it weak handed, and you won't even have to set your cards down!)

Ivan

 

[Narragansett]

Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

 

[Imissedagain]

Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

Years ago my boy came home from the range with his new 357 LCR and was not smiling.
38s were okay..... 38+P were not fun and 357s ..... never again!!!
I gave him a wee bit less than he just paid for it and loaded up 100....... the following day my hand felt normal.

Would be nice to have an adult caliber in an action like our
HS 22Mag..... two pulls... two down range.

Decades of crawling around boats in the Marine Electronics business..... the 22Mag was always on board.....with the grips removed.

 

[vipermd]

People who carry these...
How much spare ammo are you carrying and how?
I'm carrying four spare rounds in a watch pocket. Seems like enough.

I carry 4or 6 in a speed strip. Be Safe,

 

[forrestinmathews]

I also have an American Derringer in 357Mag. The gun isn't too bad to shoot with 145 357's (Silvertips) but the barrels are not regulated for any (I mean any) distance! at 21 feet the barrels print 17" apart. With a 158 LRN non+P in the upper and a 110 grain 357 STHP in the lower I can hold 3" 6 shot group at 21'. But very manageable.
Ivan

Interesting. I have not tried this yet. I have been using the offset of holding 18" low and 12" low with 160gr LRNFP. I can hit an A zone at 21' on demand.

I wonder why they never took the time to regulate the barrels. They'd be miles ahead by just lining up the barrels parallel to each other. Excuses for lazy craftsmanship...

 

[Execpro]

Had a Bond in 45acp and loved it. You might consider getting the rubber full or half grip for it. Much better control. It was the 3" bbl in a cross draw holster worn at 10-11 o'clock. Easy to carry,draw and hide(with cover garment.I wear an untucked shirt year round).
Nothing but positive things to say.
It is a bit pricy for a 2 shot gun,but it is what ever floats your boat!
The 45acp or 40cal with 3"bbl are considered the best calibers and bbl length for power factor.
If you get the gun discribed, shoot the 45 colt and get the 45acp 3" bbl! JMO.
The recoil is a bit snappy but manageable.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[vipermd]

I do prefer the ADC 's over the bonds. My calibers - 22 mag, 380, 9mm,38 spl, 357 mag, 45 ACP,45 Colt/410, 41 Mag, 44 Mag. I have taught and watched 12 year old girls shoot the ADC 45 Colt with out difficulty or "carpal crushing", firing a standard Cowboy load. A 357 made by Buffalo Arms in Tonawanda, New York,From 1970- to 1980, have a superb trigger, something none of the other derringers have. I was talking to a holster Maker about building an arm holster for the derringers 36 hours ago. Practical- No, Fast Draw- No Comforting-Yes Be Safe,

 

[forrestinmathews]

I do prefer the ADC 's over the bonds. My calibers - 22 mag, 380, 9mm,38 spl, 357 mag, 45 ACP,45 Colt/410, 41 Mag, 44 Mag. I have taught and watched 12 year old girls shoot the ADC 45 Colt with out difficulty or "carpal crushing", firing a standard Cowboy load. A 357 made by Buffalo Arms in Tonawanda, New York,From 1970- to 1980, have a superb trigger, something none of the other derringers have. I was talking to a holster Maker about building an arm holster for the derringers 36 hours ago. Practical- No, Fast Draw- No Comforting-Yes Be Safe,

Tell me/us about your POI/POA for these calibers if you would. Is there an ADC that actually hits somewhat close to where it is aimed?

Arm holster sound cool.

I have my ADC down to about 2-3 pounds. It's very nice but still has a slight bit of creep. The effort to make the trigger crisp and light is not being exerted. They make all kinds of excuses but it's just a screen for a lack of skilled smiths to do it.

 

[kaaskop49]

Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

Like all EDC-style guns, they're not built for fun. They're built for places like casino parking lots at 2AM, or for that matter, at any other time. Another advantage: many jackets have very shallow pockets. Even a J-frame with minimal stocks is too long for concealment. A derringer at 5" OAL or less is perfect for such occasions: ready to go in the hand yet concealed.

As to "why anybody would want a hand cannon:" (1) For every Jack, there's a Jill. (2) Some of us simply can't break the habit after working too many of the "garden spots" of our society before we retired. Good shooting to all!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Been a pleasure meeting other "D" guys in this thread.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Like all EDC-style guns, they're not built for fun. They're built for places like casino parking lots at 2AM, or for that matter, at any other time. Another advantage: many jackets have very shallow pockets. Even a J-frame with minimal stocks is too long for concealment. A derringer at 5" OAL or less is perfect for such occasions: ready to go in the hand yet concealed.

As to "why anybody would want a hand cannon:" (1) For every Jack, there's a Jill. (2) Some of us simply can't break the habit after working too many of the "garden spots" of our society before we retired. Good shooting to all!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
P.S. Been a pleasure meeting other "D" guys in this thread.

I beg to differ about the fun part. I have the .45 Cowboy Special option.

If you would be so kind as to share what route you chose in caliber/bullet design. I'm not getting expansion at all and am resorting to hard cast with a big meplat.

Nice to meet someone with a grasp of the niche.

 

[kaaskop49]

I beg to differ about the fun part. I have the .45 Cowboy Special option.

If you would be so kind as to share what route you chose in caliber/bullet design. I'm not getting expansion at all and am resorting to hard cast with a big meplat.

Nice to meet someone with a grasp of the niche.

Over the years, I have built up a supply of half- or third-empty ammo boxes for most handgun calibers. Many of these loads are no longer commercially available. In the .45 Colt guns, I have used the regular W-W 255gr lead and the Federal 225gr (I think) LHP. Don't know about expansion, but these big, fat slugs are nothing to stand in front of. Elizabeth of ADC told me she test fires her LC Ds with this W-W factory load.

And thank you for your kind comment about the 'niche.'

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[forrestinmathews]

Over the years, I have built up a supply of half- or third-empty ammo boxes for most handgun calibers. Many of these loads are no longer commercially available. In the .45 Colt guns, I have used the regular W-W 255gr lead and the Federal 225gr (I think) LHP. Don't know about expansion, but these big, fat slugs are nothing to stand in front of. Elizabeth of ADC told me she test fires her LC Ds with this W-W factory load.

And thank you for your kind comment about the 'niche.'

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I'm considering the Hunters Supply .452 275 grain hard cast with a .330 meplat or a Matt's Bullets 240 grain .452 hollow based wadcutter possibly turned around backwards. Until they are developed I will stick with the 300 grain softpoint acting as a solid. Unless you'd believe a fast soft lead
160 would be better.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Interesting. I have not tried this yet. I have been using the offset of holding 18" low and 12" low with 160gr LRNFP. I can hit an A zone at 21' on demand.

I wonder why they never took the time to regulate the barrels. They'd be miles ahead by just lining up the barrels parallel to each other. Excuses for lazy craftsmanship...

The barrels are not adjustable like shotgun or double rifles, where two barrels are silver soldiered together. They are a single forging/casting, with two holes bored in then rifled!

When using two different rounds to regulate the barrels, if you get them backwards, you will double the original group size . In my 357's case that is 34" @ 21' maybe two complete misses!

I don't carry spare ammo for the derringers, when CCWing them, they are fire and forget (maybe drop!) weapons!

Ivan

 

[forrestinmathews]

The barrels are not adjustable like shotgun or double rifles, where two barrels are silver soldiered together. They are a single forging/casting, with two holes bored in then rifled!

When using two different rounds to regulate the barrels, if you get them backwards, you will double the original group size . In my 357's case that is 34" @ 21' maybe two complete misses!

I don't carry spare ammo for the derringers, when CCWing them, they are fire and forget (maybe drop!) weapons!

Ivan

Hi Ivan,
When I was considering the 10mm bespoke build with ADC, I calculated that the barrels could be drilled something like 0.4° set in together and they would be spot on at ten yards. This would be undetectable to the shooter and would not affect the firing. Bond had obviously figured something like this out as well. My Bond shoots two groups about four inches apart. It's clearly a failure to realize precision in the machining on the part of ADC. If I recall the comment was to the effect of "what distance would you regulate them to?" My response was unhesitatingly 10 yards. They were baffled by the thought of this.

 

[Execpro]

POA/POI 45 ACP

I shot 185gr Speer Gold Dot HP. Painted the front blade sight with Testors Yellow paint (so I could see and index a sight pic faster).

POA/POI was right on for the top BBL (Combat sight picture),the bottom BBL shot right under the top BBL hole (If you placed the open gun bbl over the target,the holes would align with the BBL openings). Shots fired at 5 yards.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!!!

 

[forrestinmathews]

I shot 185gr Speer Gold Dot HP. Painted the front blade sight with Testors Yellow paint (so I could see and index a sight pic faster).

POA/POI was right on for the top BBL (Combat sight picture),the bottom BBL shot right under the top BBL hole (If you placed the open gun bbl over the target,the holes would align with the BBL openings). Shots fired at 5 yards.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!!!

I looked back and found that this was a Bond. So this report is unsurprising. The Americans are the ones which are grossly unregulated.

Did you get expansion in the hollow points?

 

[forrestinmathews]

So I've got some 230 grain short barrel gold dots headed my way for expansion testing. I intend to see if they will be made to expand from either derringer. If not I have some Missouri bullet company 215 grain wide flat noses coming along with some 335 grain slammers which are darn near wadcutters...very large meplat. The Missouri bullets are under 20 cents a shot so that is very nice. Something out of those three will be acceptable I am sure. I will update as testing completes.

 

[Execpro]

I never tested that round for expansion. I'm sure you can find some info on google. It is basically a 45 hp out of a 3"bbl.
If you have expansion concerns,you could consider a truncated bullet. I don't believe that with a 45 that anything other than a full metal jacket would be a concern. JMO.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[vipermd]

Tell me/us about your POI/POA for these calibers if you would. Is there an ADC that actually hits somewhat close to where it is aimed?Arm holster sound cool.I have my ADC down to about 2-3 pounds. It's very nice but still has a slight bit of creep. The effort to make the trigger crisp and light is not being exerted. They make all kinds of excuses but it's just a screen for a lack of skilled smiths to do it.

Sorry for the delay- The Groundhog lied!!! All of them are with in +/- 2" L-R, U-D @ 7 yards on paper plate as long as I do my part. The Buffalo arms 357 has the best trigger of them all and @ 7 yards will shoot "groups", the only bad thing is that the frame will hit my middle finger since recoil seems to come straight back. It is the only "D" that I have shot since Nov 2018. Be Safe,

 

[forrestinmathews]

I never tested that round for expansion. I'm sure you can find some info on google. It is basically a 45 hp out of a 3"bbl.
If you have expansion concerns,you could consider a truncated bullet. I don't believe that with a 45 that anything other than a full metal jacket would be a concern. JMO.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

I'm not getting a lot of velocity. I'm hoping that the Short Barrel will work when loaded warm in the .45 Colt.