Do You Intervene?

[reerc]

So, you're in any public area – a restaurant, a movie theater, mall, school – doesn't really matter where, and you hear a loud "pop". You quickly see the source of the noise, someone has just shot someone, and they're taking aim at someone else, even as you watch.

What do you do?

Duck for cover and dial 911?

Call out that you are armed and will shoot if he doesn't drop the weapon?

Drop the SOB in his tracks?

Oh, and you are NOT an LEO, just a card carrying lover of the second amendment.

 

[flop-shank]

I generally would not until I was certain what was going on, even if that meant more people got shot. Things aren't always what they appear, lawyers aren't cheap, and prison would suck to the tenth power. If it's an active shooter type scenario like in the Salt Lake City, ect., I might shoot the perp from cover, especially if I can "sucker punch" him after being able to observe what's going on. My 5" 629 should be able to do that from quite a distance. If there were no children, or elderly people present, I would just leave. Adults in Michigan may carry so it's their own damn fault if they're not armed.

Willingly engaging in combat is likely willingly risking all of one's assets and entire future. This one might be a good time to ask WWHSD (what would Han Solo do).

 

[Evil One]

Im in a public area... and there is an active shooter?
I will do what I can to put him down.
Try to run... get shot in the back.
Hide... he may find you and shoot you while you cower.
Duck behind cover... make holes... let air in and blood out.
I may get sued?
Hell man, I may die.


Jim

 

[Strato]

I don't know about other states but in Florida they tell us if someone is commiting a felony or posing an immediate threat to someone's life(even a stranger) as long as we are somewhere we have a legal right to be we can use are guns to stop the perp as long as he hasn't already commited the felony and is leaving the scene, then we are supposedly imune to prosecution. However if you bring your gun to a school and the perp lives you might be his cellmate.

 

[Crazy K38]

I would make sure the guy that got shot wasn't a S/D shooting and if it wasn't I would drop him in his tracks,better to be broke and in jail than dead, he already killed on person taking aim on another, cops won't get here in time, and I am the only one that can save me and my family as well as a few people to stupid to save themselves

 

[reerc]

I guess we can philosophize on what we "would" do until the cows come home, but let's just all pray that none of us ever reall is in this situation.

It looks like there might be some differences in State laws, which complicate the issue.

I honestly don't know what I'd do, but I know that I'm not an LEO, and therefore not authorized to use deadly force against anyone else - unless my OWN life is in jeopardy.

I'd hate to "bait" the shooter and turn the situation into one where my own life really was at stake. Sure, I may be on legally higher ground in that case, but I may be dead too, if he's a quicker / better shot than me.

 

[jkc]

This has been discussed here, previously, at length, with arguments at either end of the spectrum, from chest thumping macho, to cautiously reserved. While there's no easy answer, as has been said, adults who've not bothered to be prepared to defend themselves probably don't deserve your intervention. Someone raping a child or about to torch an orphanage probably does.

There was an illustrative incident here a while back, when several Scottsdale high school kids staged a play-acted armed assault in a parking lot, as part of a class assignment involving videotaping the event. It was apparently realistic enough to prompt observing passersby to summon the cops (no one actually intervened...). How'd you like to try to explain to the grand jury that some goofy high school students caused you to shoot them acting as a Good Samaritan?

Unless you or yours are immediately threatened, best to leave yourself out of the action, and be a good ex post facto witness.

 

[Waldo]

Think a lot depends on where you are. Think about the subway shooter in New York a few years ago. He got into more trouble then the guys who tried to rob him. I used to shoot at a range with a MD. cop a few years ago. He told me something like this " If you went into a store and a criminal was in there and had robbed and killed the store owner and had raped a nun and was in the process of dismembering a Girl Scout and you mentioned that you had once walked by a gun store. You would probably be in more trouble then the criminal." That was in MD. where the Democrats are in charge and hate gun owners. But I would sure be real careful before shooting anybody who was not actively attacking me or my family.

 

[Kanewpadle]

This has been discussed here, previously, at length, with arguments at either end of the spectrum, from chest thumping macho, to cautiously reserved. While there's no easy answer, as has been said, adults who've not bothered to be prepared to defend themselves probably don't deserve your intervention. Someone raping a child or about to torch an orphanage probably does.

There was an illustrative incident here a while back, when several Scottsdale high school kids staged a play-acted armed assault in a parking lot, as part of a class assignment involving videotaping the event. It was apparently realistic enough to prompt observing passersby to summon the cops (no one actually intervened...). How'd you like to try to explain to the grand jury that some goofy high school students caused you to shoot them acting as a Good Samaritan?

Unless you or yours are immediately threatened, best to leave yourself out of the action, and be a good ex post facto witness.

Good post. Involving oneself in any violent situation without first taking the time to find out what's really happening is asking for trouble. It's a fine line, but protecting yourself and loved one's come first everytime. Bravado, machoism,and testosterone need to be out of the equation.

 

[gregintenn]

If there were no children, or elderly people present, I would just leave. Adults in Michigan may carry so it's their own damn fault if they're not armed.

Interesting viewpoint. I'd never considered it before. That's why I come here.

 

[reerc]

Unless you or yours are immediately threatened, best to leave yourself out of the action, and be a good ex post facto witness.

Good advice.

A year or two ago, a well meaning, but apparently too aggressive neighborhood watch type took it upon himself to challenge someone in his neighborhod he didn't know. Been long enough I'm foggy on the details, but both parties had guns, and I'm pretty sure one of them was killed. I'm sure it didn't end well for the shooter.

 

[Krull]

Good advice.

A year or two ago, a well meaning, but apparently too aggressive neighborhood watch type took it upon himself to challenge someone in his neighborhod he didn't know. Been long enough I'm foggy on the details, but both parties had guns, and I'm pretty sure one of them was killed. I'm sure it didn't end well for the shooter.

I've gotten heat for my attitude before on this but....

Adults,old people,kids I don't care they can go to hell,the only people my gun comes out to defend are myself,a few friends and family.

If I see things getting hot I get out or find cover,if Mr.Crazy finds me and tries something then he's getting a free lead sample.

Outside of that I'm a good witness and my job is "yes,I saw him shoot all those people,and yes I saw him shoot that baby" does seeing people die bother me? no,not at all-life sucks,we all have to die sometime.

 

[bubbajoe45]

What do you do?

Duck for cover and dial 911?

Call out that you are armed and will shoot if he doesn't drop the weapon?

Drop the SOB in his tracks?

Oh, and you are NOT an LEO, just a card carrying lover of the second amendment.

For me, this might depend somewhat on whether or not I am alone or have family members with me, but in general seek cover, get help on the way (delegate this if possible so you can be ready), as Flopshank said assess the situation, and then if it's clear what's happening drop him - otherwise, get out or wait it out at the ready.

 

[Knightrider03m]

I can't answer this question. A lot of things can happen during this shooting that would make me act in a number of different ways. All that I can say is that if I can find a way out of the area of the shooter with out the risk of me or mines getting shot then I WILL take the out. For all other factors, I will do my best to read the problem that is at hand as fast as I can and act in the best way that would benefit me (and/or my family and friends). I don't carry my gun to save the world. Just the people that I love.

As others stated above me, once you engage in a firefight, you will have to spend money for a lawyer no matter how right you are. You put yourself at great odds of being sued in a civil case in which you have to spend money on a lawyer. Plus during the fight, you don't know who is helping the enemy that you don't see. The last thing that I need is to have the wife, girlfriend, or friend of the shooter to come out of the woodwork and start blasting away.

There always have to be someone to tell the story, I would be one of them.

 

[TNDixieGirl]

You quickly see the source of the noise, someone has just shot someone, and they're taking aim at someone else, even as you watch.

What if that's an undercover LEO defending himself or taking down a bad guy?

I believe I'd take cover and try to get help on the way vs. possibly killing a cop doing his job. Too many variables we aren't aware of in that situation.

 

[The Big D]

This has been discussed on the Forum ad infinitum, but here's my answer, again.

I know what I would do; I would be involved, directly. I have done so and will do so again. Period.

I always find it interesting...and a bit troubling...that so many backyard Ninjas are petrified to the point of inaction when real life presents itself in their world. Do recall Kitty Genovese.

I have never met, in person, another member of this Forum. However, I am willing to bet my life that certain of them would have my back. I am fairly sure I know just who they are; they know who they are.

I am happy such people exist.

Be safe.

 

[flop-shank]

I always find it interesting...and a bit troubling...that so many backyard Ninjas are petrified to the point of inaction when real life presents itself in their world.

I don't think it's a matter of being petrified in the case of most. They view it as the prudent thing to do. It's real easy to tell someone else that they should risk their life's savings, life and future over a situation that they likely don't initially understand, or have the training and experience that a LEO has to deal with such occurances.

Myself, I have moderated my stance somewhat and I wouldn't leave a cop in the lurch...........If I knew he were a cop. At the same time, I'm not a cop, never wanted to be one, and have no desire to try to be one.

 

[MrJT]

Romanticized visions of what one might do in a situation like this are great and all, especially having the luxury of sitting at home on your computer with plenty of time to envision a response.

Truth is, nobody knows what they'll do in this situation until it happens. Most people have never been faced with such an intense situation. Fight or flight time. When this situation goes down.. in the microseconds that follow after it's realized the noise was a gunshot, most will be thinking "am I ok?", "is my family ok?", "how can I ensure our safety?"

 

[Faulkner]

Romanticized visions of what one might do in a situation like this are great and all, especially having the luxury of sitting at home on your computer with plenty of time to envision a response.

Truth is, nobody knows what they'll do in this situation until it happens. Most people have never been faced with such an intense situation. Fight or flight time. When this situation goes down.. in the microseconds that follow after it's realized the noise was a gunshot, most will be thinking "am I ok?", "is my family ok?", "how can I ensure our safety?"

+1

I agree that unless you have experiance in this sort of thing, you just don't know what you'll do until it's time. Training helps, but I've seen fully trained LEO's freeze up when the excrement hit the rotating device.

Short story; we have a certain female reserve deputy that's been with our department for a couple of years. She's a cute blond, athletic (plays coed softball), about 5' 3" and in her early 30's, works full time as a office manager for a insurance company with her husband. She went through our certified reserve officer training program and did okay, shoots about average scores with her Glock, but at 110 pounds soaking wet the 12 guage with 00 buckshot jolts her around a bit. She had a interest in law enforcement because her dad had been a cop in his younger days.

As a reserve deputy she rode patrol with me a few times. She always did a good job with normal patrol and traffic stops, but I always wondered in the back of my mind how she'd do when the bad stuff hit. One night she was partnered with another deputy and I got a call to back them up on a domestic. When I got there she was standing there, her uniform dirty and part of her shirttail hanging, holding a shotgun on guard with six males laying face down in the front yard. The full time deputy came over to me grinning saying the fight was on when they got there and when he bailed out of the car to go deal with the situation she was right there with him and ended up taking two guys to the ground with her ASP baton and manhandled another one until she got him cuffed.

I asked her if she was alright and she said it scared her to death, but there was no way she was going to let her partner go it alone.

You just never know.

 

[Firehouse]

I'd do my utmost to protect my friends and family. If it meant ducking for cover and waiting for the shooter to approach my area or running the other direction, that is what is most important to me. They are my responsibility, not anyone else. If it came down to my life or my family member/friend, then I'd do what I had to. My family needs me to be there for them, even when it's all over. I can only be responsible for them and only them. And I don't expect anyone to be responsible for me either. I don't apologize for that. Everyone else has the same responsibility for their personal safety as I do my own. If they choose not to, then they can wait for law enforcement. I am not law enforcement.