Carrying the 442UC today. Anyone using wadcutters for carry?
Dusted off the 442UC and Underwood 150 gr. Wadcutters
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I load wad cutters for fun and for practice in 357mag brass but at reduced pressures of course .
My wife has her 360J 357mag loaded with Federal HST 38 Special +P 130 grain and a speed loader of 357mag short barrel 135gr gold dot ammo , at 5-2 and 69 next week she is not found of 357mag ammo in a 15oz snubby .
My wife has her 360J 357mag loaded with Federal HST 38 Special +P 130 grain and a speed loader of 357mag short barrel 135gr gold dot ammo , at 5-2 and 69 next week she is not found of 357mag ammo in a 15oz snubby .
Rammer Jammer
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Higher powered Underwood wadcutters defeat the purpose of carrying softer shooting wadcutters.
OP
That's only true if your purpose is to carry "softer shooting" wadcutters.
Hollowpoints do not reliably expand out of short barrel recolver. The wadcutter profile is effective without expansion.
I've got some Double Tap 148 gr. I've clocked in some 2 inchers travelling around 730-740 fps. Based on the research I've done, that seems to be an ideal penetration velocity for 2 legged SD.
But I'm more of a hollow point man. 110 gr. Critical Defense, 125 Gr. Golden Saber, or Federal Hydra-Shok Deep. It really depens on where the ammo hits in a particular gun.
I save the WC for when I need more penetration. Winter and heavy clothing. unfortunately in So. AZ, I don't get any of that. But if I travel to that environment, WC's get the nod.
But I'm more of a hollow point man. 110 gr. Critical Defense, 125 Gr. Golden Saber, or Federal Hydra-Shok Deep. It really depens on where the ammo hits in a particular gun.
I save the WC for when I need more penetration. Winter and heavy clothing. unfortunately in So. AZ, I don't get any of that. But if I travel to that environment, WC's get the nod.
The Federal load I mentioned above your post has very good expansion for a 38sp and penetrates as a 12" average
Check out link below .
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/
Unless you’re found that ammo recently, I believe it’s been discontinued. The Federal Hydra-shok deep is comparable based on the gel tests I’ve seen.
Dusted mine off too.
But no wad cutters.
Something about the simplicity of the snub nose keeps me coming back.
But no wad cutters.
Something about the simplicity of the snub nose keeps me coming back.
I'll also add, the WC make sense for me in older non-+P rated J frames. I've got a Nickel 442 built on the smaller frame. I'm sure it can handle some +P ammo, but I'd worry about the frame crack. Although I've heard it speculated that could be caused by heating up the steel barrel in the alloy frame possibly causing barrel expansion?
I do. Wadcutters in the cylinder, and Hornady 110 grain standard pressure Critical Defense in a speed loader and/or a speed strip. I worked with the wadcutters in both the speed loader and speed strip, but it was too difficult to get the rounds started into the cylinder, and that was not under stress. Before the Hornady round came out I still carried wadcutters in a speed strip, but gave up on the speed loader.
T. McIntyre
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I carry nothing but wadcutters. 148 grain poly coat wadcutters in my 442:
and 100 grain WCs in my 432UC:
Both produced by Lost River Ammunition Company (that is me
)
In fact I just made a bunch of the .38 WCs yesterday, as they are a rather popular load for target shooters and J Frame guys as well.
and 100 grain WCs in my 432UC:
Both produced by Lost River Ammunition Company (that is me
)In fact I just made a bunch of the .38 WCs yesterday, as they are a rather popular load for target shooters and J Frame guys as well.
I carry factory 148 grain wadcutter in my 'J' Frame 2" five shot revolvers.
I recently began CCW my Model 60 no dash instead of my Model 642. Due to medical issues I can fire an exposed hammer handgun better than concealed hammers.
I recently began CCW my Model 60 no dash instead of my Model 642. Due to medical issues I can fire an exposed hammer handgun better than concealed hammers.
Who makes those "fancy" wadcutters, please?
Marshal Tom
Member
I recently purchased a 432UC after reading all the development information on it. I also purchased some of the Lost River 100gr. Poly coat wadcutters from Mr. McIntire after reading of the effectiveness of that load.
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While I used to carry a M60-7 for SD, I haven't in 5 years. When I did, I would carry the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWCHP-GC which is the hottest 158 gr. 38 spl. commonly available. I had confidence in that. Prior to that becoming available, I would use the Remington +P "FBI Load". While certainly no powerhouse, it did get the job done in most instances.
Every Wad Cutter I have ever shot was aimed at a paper target. Not that I'd want to be hit by one, but IMO they are not the best for SD. Yes, better than a knife but they won't expand and because of their shape, penetration might suffer a bit.
Over the last decade or so there have been a bunch of newcomers to the ammo marketplace. I am not saying none of them are good - but I personally tend to stick with loads that have been around for a while, street proven and L/E approved. Using untested new loads are to me a little of a performance question not to mention leaving me with a feeling of not knowing how it will perform. In each caliber there are usually proven street loads - that's what I'd stick to.
Every Wad Cutter I have ever shot was aimed at a paper target. Not that I'd want to be hit by one, but IMO they are not the best for SD. Yes, better than a knife but they won't expand and because of their shape, penetration might suffer a bit.
Over the last decade or so there have been a bunch of newcomers to the ammo marketplace. I am not saying none of them are good - but I personally tend to stick with loads that have been around for a while, street proven and L/E approved. Using untested new loads are to me a little of a performance question not to mention leaving me with a feeling of not knowing how it will perform. In each caliber there are usually proven street loads - that's what I'd stick to.
Well yes I did buy enough to keep my wife in carry ammo with a occasional practice for some time and loading her standard practice ammo be it forher snubby or 9mm or 380 to match the velocity and bullet weights of her CC ammo is easy to do .
Nice!
I want one in .32
I want one in .32
T. McIntyre
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Time for a little education on wadcutters.
This quote /opinion is something I hear often from people who really don't know much about the topic.
"but IMO they are not the best for SD. Yes, better than a knife but they won't expand and because of their shape, penetration might suffer a bit. "
As a preface, I will say that I have a background not only locally and on the state level but also on the fed side as a firearms instructor as well as armorer, and did a fair bit of ammunition testing over the decades.
The whole reason why wadcutters have been traditionally chosen to be used in short barrel revolvers is consistency. Due to their barrel like profile they don't really expand. They don't need to. What they do is penetrate. They penetrate deep and straight. Extremely consistently, over and over.
Other designs like hollow points have proven over the years to be very sporadic in terms of expansion from 1& 7/8ths" revolvers. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Also, their penetration tends to be inconsistent as compared to wadcutters. The wadcutter is not trying to open up to work. It is simply cutting a cookie cutter hole, driving a consistent depth into its target.
As far as "what LE carries", Wadcutters have been carried by smart cops for many decades. I carried wadcutters my entire career in my J Frame 442, as did many of the more switched guys who carried J Frames. Fortunately I had good mentors who showed me "the way".
Now with that career behind me, I own a small custom ammo shop and sell more wadcutters to folks carrying small revolvers than any other type of revolver ammo.
You really don't need to push the wadcutters into +P range either. In fact it is counter productive, as it makes the gun simply harder to shoot quickly and accurately. However John Q public is typically poorly informed and usually will buy whatever is fastest thinking that is "bestest" without ever actually doing any personal performance testing. If they went out and did some tests with a timer they would quickly see that they were slower with the +P ammo in a J Frame, due to the nasty sharp recoil, and would be far better off with standard velocity. Good quality center mass hits matter, not making noise.
My old 442 has many miles on it now. Over 7K rounds through it, since it was given to me as a graduation gift from a state police academy. It got carried daily, used as a teaching gun and served me well.
It is a little rough cosmetic wise, but it is like a very trusted old friend.
Not too long ago I did a project with Lispey's and created a new wadcutter load specifically for the new Ultimate Carry .32 H&R J Frame. It is a 100 grain Wadcutter. Long story short, it has been immensely popular. In fact when the guns were released at SHOT this year it got crazy here and I have been trying to keep up with demand since.
The little 432 is an amazing little J Frame and I keep it loaded with wadcutters as well. In fact it has been riding in my pocket daily. LOVE that gun and the WCs penetrate between 22 and 24"s which is plenty.
Long story short, Wadcutters Work, and they work great.
Hopefully this will help someone.
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T. McIntyre
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I am not sure which "Fancy" wadcutters you are referencing. However if you were talking about the colored ones, they are poly-coated 148 grain wadcutters that I make under my own brand. I own a very small custom ammo shop (Lost River Ammunition Company). I am careful about what I say in posts about the ammo business, as I have been here for a long time.
My old account got nuked so I started a new one in 2004. Can't believe its been 20 years already sheesh! Anyways I don't want anyone to think I am hawking my ammo on here, as obviously I am a long time fan of S&Ws. Especially N Frame .44s and 3rd Gen .45s.
I managed to get this 4563 CQB out of Ken Hackathorn's safe. Such an amazing gun. And Ken really made me a good buddy deal on this, for which I am forever grateful. It will always be associated with Ken and my friendship.
And just for grins..
Some :
.38 Special 148 grain wadcutters
.38 Short Colt 125 grain flat point (for even lower recoil practice in J Frames)
.32 H&R wadcutters
All poly coat of course.
