Maybe I'm late to the party but I just learned that S&W steel semi autos are no longer being produced. When I couldn't find any on the official web site I placed a phone call to S&W and that's what I was told. Comes as a surprise to me to say the least. Anyone else surprised by this?
End of the line for S&W steel semi autos.
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1066
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Disappointed, but not surprised. I thought it was coming as soon as they brought out the M&P poly frame guns.
You mean 3rd Gen autos, they're still making 1911's. 
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They'll still build them for a big enough order-or at least they were. After they officially quit, they built 4006's for the CHP on special order.
Since the production is by CNC machine, all they have to do is schedule production, order steel and change the programming tapes/chip.
Since the production is by CNC machine, all they have to do is schedule production, order steel and change the programming tapes/chip.
That's my understanding also. In addition they mentioned the LE only for limited steel production runs. Doubt I'll ever be a polymer gun fan.You mean 3rd Gen autos, they're still making 1911's.
Texas1941
Member
Very true. From Smith's point of view, even a small order (50-100 pieces) should be easy enough to put together at a profit.
I will be surprised if many such orders occur. Possibly some agencies that are already using the 3rd gen pistols will make replacement orders to delay the cost of transition to a different pistol. But I doubt that anyone not currently using them would want to change to what is now a special order item.
Part of the reason is the current economy, but a bigger factor is the way managers (including goverment managers) are trained. I think very few of them are going to want to risk being stranded with a product that may be difficult to maintain because of a lack of parts or factory support. Most of the people who sign the checks are going to be more comfortable with an off the shelf item, where they can maintain a just in time inventory. That pushes at least part of the cost into the future and back on to the supplier.
Smith, like most everyone else, is doing its best to promote the plastic pistols. It's what the market appears to demand, and the profit margins seem to higher on a unit basis. In a very few years, the number of manufacturing and support employees who have any real experience with the 3rd gens will be much smaller than it is today. People retire, move on, get promoted. Five years, say, is a long time in the life of a 21st Century company.
In a short time, it's likely that if you call with a 3rd gen question, the person you talk to will know no more than appears on his or her computer screen. The same thing will happen over time with after market support. Fifteen years ago I could name at least five gunsmiths in SE Texas that did good work on Colt DA revolvers. Now, I can think of only one, in Austin. There are probably others I don't know about, but they seem to be a dying breed.
Even now, the people that seem to have the best working knowledge of the 3rd gen guns are not gunsmiths, but police armorers and instructors. And most of them are my age or close to it.
I hate to see them go. I got my first 39 nearly forty years ago and I do love them. But unless a really large order appears from somewhere, I think their day is done.
That my take on it anyway.
Charles
The bean counters largely control what goes in law enforcement holsters.
Fortunately I've enough steel and aluminum framed 3rd generation S&W's to last me. I will still watch out for a good deal though. Regards 18DAI.
Fortunately I've enough steel and aluminum framed 3rd generation S&W's to last me. I will still watch out for a good deal though. Regards 18DAI.
Parker Phoenix
Member
I dispise poly guns. I'm stocking up on 3rd generation pistols.
kokopelli
US Veteran
I simply REFUSE to own a plastic gun. Is alloy or steel that much more expensive to produce?
Jetpilot007
Member
Given the discontinuation of the metal frame 3rd Generation pistols, I am convinced they will appreciate in value.
Just my 2 cents (now worth 1/millionth due to Barry O)
Just my 2 cents (now worth 1/millionth due to Barry O)
novalty
Member
Despite the success and the quality of the M&P line, I am very sad to see the discontinuation of the metal frame 3rd Gens.
I enjoy my H&K USP, Kel-Tec P-11, Ruger KP-95DC and Ruger 22/45, but none are as satisfying to hold, and feel the heft, as my 439, 5906 or 6906. There is something about the ergonomics and weight that makes the others feel like toys. Accurate and reliable toys, but plastic toys nonetheless.
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Actually, that was our collective initial reaction (at the instructor level) when the LE rep stopped by with M&P samples. After a few rounds, it was: "Can you leave a few T&E samples?" After extensive trials, including opportunities for everyone passing through inservice training, we adopted them with approval ratings about in the 90th percentile from the troops. While it may not be a work of art to gladden the heart, it's a better weapons system, which is why we carry sidearms in the first place.
As for cost factor, it was darn near 50% cheaper than the 4006s we were going to buy to replace the 1006s we couldn't get ammo for anymore. Note: buying ammo by the ton presents problems individuals don't face.
Atlanta_SW40
Member
this topic has been exhausted repeatedly. Do we like it? NO. Is there anything we can do about it? No..only if we place an order for 500qty of a model...but which model would it be???
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...3725-s-w-phasing-out-metal-auto-3rd-gens.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...3725-s-w-phasing-out-metal-auto-3rd-gens.html
Photog
Member
There is nothing wrong with plastic guns...two of my favorite were my Mattel "Tommy Burst", which could fire a whole role of caps with one pull of the trigger and a brand I can't remember that held more water than my friend's squirt guns did, and therefore allowed me to win many squirt gun battles.
gatorhugger
Member
I don't mind plastic guns for cosmetic reasons, they look ok.
I prefer all metal but polymer looks alright.
My beef with plastic and the reason I dislike them is for practical reasons.
Once a gun gets around 20 ounces it has a propensity to jam with
off hand shooting and limp wristing.
No thanks.
I don't believe a gun has to be 32 ounces to be immune from limp wristing, but I feel a lot more comfortable with one in the 25 ounce range.
Which makes a steel and alloy gun just about the perfect compromise in carry weight with assured reliability.
If it's not reliable, 100% under all conditions, it's useless to me.
Therefore the 3rd generations are about the best 9mm's ever built in
my book.
I prefer all metal but polymer looks alright.
My beef with plastic and the reason I dislike them is for practical reasons.
Once a gun gets around 20 ounces it has a propensity to jam with
off hand shooting and limp wristing.
No thanks.
I don't believe a gun has to be 32 ounces to be immune from limp wristing, but I feel a lot more comfortable with one in the 25 ounce range.
Which makes a steel and alloy gun just about the perfect compromise in carry weight with assured reliability.
If it's not reliable, 100% under all conditions, it's useless to me.
Therefore the 3rd generations are about the best 9mm's ever built in
my book.
shootmeselfinfoot
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Well, there are a lot of competition out there against S&W stainless autos. The CZ 75 B satin stainless, the Beretta INOX, the tons of 1911s out there, etc...
Since cops use the plastic stuff, I gather the stainless auto is really for the civilian recreational market.
Since cops use the plastic stuff, I gather the stainless auto is really for the civilian recreational market.
Not all cops are enamoured with plastic.
Three out of the five agencies in my jurisdiction issue 4566's and 4516's. The other two issue the Glock 21 and Glock 30.
One was evaluating tupperware guns but decided to stick with the 4566....for now.
I'm sticking with my 4516 as well. Reliable, accurate and the weight soaks up recoil making follow ups easy. Regards 18DAI.
Three out of the five agencies in my jurisdiction issue 4566's and 4516's. The other two issue the Glock 21 and Glock 30.
One was evaluating tupperware guns but decided to stick with the 4566....for now.
I'm sticking with my 4516 as well. Reliable, accurate and the weight soaks up recoil making follow ups easy. Regards 18DAI.
andyo5
Member
Look for what you want on GunBroker.com That's where I got mine.
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