FBI agent loses gun during dance back flip
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
While I don't recall any specific training about what to do if you do a backflip in a bar and shoot some random guy while regaining control of your errant firearm, I would say the doctrine of "don't make it worse" applies in this situation.
Of all the dumb things my former colleague did that night, quietly exiting the scene and waiting patiently outside for his career to end wasn't one of them.
Of all the dumb things my former colleague did that night, quietly exiting the scene and waiting patiently outside for his career to end wasn't one of them.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
That Parkland LEO wasn't the one sending rounds toward innocents, and a LEO protecting anyone isn't the same as a LEO accidentally shooting toward civilians.
I'm not talking legal obligation, just having the decency to make sure an ND is benign. I've a grandson that victims age, and I'd hope if someone accidentally shot him, they'd stop to help, same as an auto accident.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
The hooey in the agents court statement.
See post 181 if your interested.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I have it on good authority the victim was taken to a quiet back office where a number of babies were sleeping, and was well cared for until medical help arrived.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Yeah......
Are LEOs given any training on medical help if a shooting ever takes place?
Not trying to be smart, I just am wondering if an officer could be of any help other than securing the scene and calling an ambulance.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
He would have had some basic first aid (direct pressure, elevate the limb) but nothing special.
The main thing is he didn't shoot this guy on top of a mountain and leave him there to bleed out. There were plenty of people around, and help was on the way. Why run the risk of somebody saying - He's the one what shot him! - and then the possibility of another shooting or a beat down? He had no way of knowing this bar was full of peaceful Amish folk on their way to a barn raising.
Well I can see most of what your saying until the why run a risk.
The flip side would be why run a risk that the guy could die because no one knows how to treat for shock or was maybe hit in an artery,or someone decided it would be quicker to drive him instead of waiting for help.
I guess either instance could occur.
I sure would hate to be put in those conditions
Doug M.
Member
At some point, this string will get locked, I suspect. We will see two diverging views: one is that he got enough for what he did - his career is over and he is almost certain have a hard time finding a job in any field he finds appealing. The other is similar to the one I posted - and not all that different from the "Spiderman" rule: with great power comes great responsibility. They are not incompatible.
My state's laws are not like Colorado's: here, with few exceptions, "intent" is required for an assault, and this would not make it. However, one of those exceptions is our assault 3 (which is a felony): RCW 9A.36.031: Assault in the third degree.. I am referring to subsections (d) ("With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm") and (f) ("With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm accompanied by substantial pain that extends for a period sufficient to cause considerable suffering"). I would sure as heck charge it, and ... let's say that coming down from that would require a significant amount of jail time (several months) for the misdemeanor (assault 4, reckless endangerment, or some other option not important to this discussion).
That said: the first major error was being there in the first place. I cannot see any excuse at all for being in a location at which there is dancing and alcohol, with the possible exception of ballroom dancing, and I am not sold on it. (Unless on-duty, of course - and those experiences have resulted in this viewpoint.) When I teach in our local reserve academy, one of the things I mention is exactly that - because booze and dancing far too often lead to fights. I know it is not all that common ... but too common for people in the field to risk. It makes me cranky. (Ok, it's an easy standard for me to live by. As a diabetic, I can't drink much or often, and I dance with a complete lack of grace ... but that doesn't mean I am wrong.) Edit: I also don't like people in general very much, and crowds at all. I almost never go to social events involving my office, and those are people I actually like and respect. I went to one last month, a colleagues 40th B-day party, and it was a rarity that drew comments.
I do see the point about leaving and waiting outside for the cops ... but that is again related to being in a stupid place, with stupid people. When you're 15, or maybe 20 ... I can see it. At 25 or so, with 4 years as an Army officer and now being a fed? Not just no. Hell no. Period.
My state's laws are not like Colorado's: here, with few exceptions, "intent" is required for an assault, and this would not make it. However, one of those exceptions is our assault 3 (which is a felony): RCW 9A.36.031: Assault in the third degree.. I am referring to subsections (d) ("With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm") and (f) ("With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm accompanied by substantial pain that extends for a period sufficient to cause considerable suffering"). I would sure as heck charge it, and ... let's say that coming down from that would require a significant amount of jail time (several months) for the misdemeanor (assault 4, reckless endangerment, or some other option not important to this discussion).
That said: the first major error was being there in the first place. I cannot see any excuse at all for being in a location at which there is dancing and alcohol, with the possible exception of ballroom dancing, and I am not sold on it. (Unless on-duty, of course - and those experiences have resulted in this viewpoint.) When I teach in our local reserve academy, one of the things I mention is exactly that - because booze and dancing far too often lead to fights. I know it is not all that common ... but too common for people in the field to risk. It makes me cranky. (Ok, it's an easy standard for me to live by. As a diabetic, I can't drink much or often, and I dance with a complete lack of grace ... but that doesn't mean I am wrong.) Edit: I also don't like people in general very much, and crowds at all. I almost never go to social events involving my office, and those are people I actually like and respect. I went to one last month, a colleagues 40th B-day party, and it was a rarity that drew comments.
I do see the point about leaving and waiting outside for the cops ... but that is again related to being in a stupid place, with stupid people. When you're 15, or maybe 20 ... I can see it. At 25 or so, with 4 years as an Army officer and now being a fed? Not just no. Hell no. Period.
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