Good article! I don't understand some of the tech jargon he uses, but I get the gist of what he's saying in Apple's (and ultimately, our) defense.
Feds vs iPhone
- Thread starter ChattanoogaPhil
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Good article! I don't understand some of the tech jargon he uses, but I get the gist of what he's saying in Apple's (and ultimately, our) defense.
Excellent read. Affirms the central question: once done, Pandora's box is open. I for one will never trust the federal government to care for my privacy or security. BTDT.
wheelgunguy
Member
Since Apple is a global company. I think we should take a global look at this vs. just the U.S.
All countries at one time or another have extremely horrific things happen. When let's say China, Russia, or Iran has one of these events they call up Apple and say "Our court decided you need to come up with some software to hack this phone and give it to our law enforcement or build a backdoor on future OSs. Just like you did for the U.S." Now they have the technology.
How many people are up for that?
Another thing to consider. Let's say Tim says ok we'll do it and Apple stock drops 5-10 percent. That would run in the 25-50+ billion dollar range. Should the U.S. taxpayer foot the bill? What if all they get is access to his iTunes account? Is being able to take over where he was on Angry Birds worth it?
Yes I know that last comment was a little flip. But consider the fact that may be all they get. Our Founders felt privacy was extremely important and so should we.
All countries at one time or another have extremely horrific things happen. When let's say China, Russia, or Iran has one of these events they call up Apple and say "Our court decided you need to come up with some software to hack this phone and give it to our law enforcement or build a backdoor on future OSs. Just like you did for the U.S." Now they have the technology.
How many people are up for that?
Another thing to consider. Let's say Tim says ok we'll do it and Apple stock drops 5-10 percent. That would run in the 25-50+ billion dollar range. Should the U.S. taxpayer foot the bill? What if all they get is access to his iTunes account? Is being able to take over where he was on Angry Birds worth it?
Yes I know that last comment was a little flip. But consider the fact that may be all they get. Our Founders felt privacy was extremely important and so should we.
Steely Dan
Member
Amen!
One phone being breached is not as valuable as monitoring and dare I say "profiling" future perps who go into gun free zones and slaughter the innocents!
If it looks like duck and acts like a duck (who has radical terroistic rhetoric on their Facebook/Twitter) then........it needs to be a dead duck.
oldguyshoot
Member
This made me laugh out loud, but it's poignant. The phone belonged to the employer, so no way they used it for their operations. If this had been their personal phone, and it was found hidden away, then maybe there could be something of value on it.
Here's something to chew on: What if the FBI gives Apple a phone with an NSA Trojan Horse on it? Several in this thread have wondered why the three letter agencies aren't cooperating on this. Maybe they are.
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oldguyshoot
Member
Apple is now saying a government employee reset the terrorits's iCloud password while the phone was in the possession of law enforcement, effectively ruling out the possibility of an automatic backup to the cloud.
The phone hadn't been backed up to the cloud for a while before the attack, so it's thought they might have turned off the cloud backups. But still - the incompetency.
https://gma.yahoo.com/san-bernardino-shooters-apple-id-passcode-changed-while-234003785--abc-news-topstories.html
The phone hadn't been backed up to the cloud for a while before the attack, so it's thought they might have turned off the cloud backups. But still - the incompetency.
https://gma.yahoo.com/san-bernardino-shooters-apple-id-passcode-changed-while-234003785--abc-news-topstories.html
OP
ChattanoogaPhil
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For those demonizing Apple....
Apple didn't welcome the San Bernadino Muslim terrorist, Tashfeen Malik, into our country, the Feds did. Apple wasn't the employer of the Ft Hood Muslim terrorist, the Federal government was. Russia didn't call Apple to warn them about the Boston Bombers Muslim terrorists, the Russians warned the Feds.
At no time in human history has a government had more information available on those living in the country and around the globe than does our Federal government. Maybe the Feds ought to start using the information they have and what's right under thier nose before attacking and blaming the citizenry and American corporations.
Apple didn't welcome the San Bernadino Muslim terrorist, Tashfeen Malik, into our country, the Feds did. Apple wasn't the employer of the Ft Hood Muslim terrorist, the Federal government was. Russia didn't call Apple to warn them about the Boston Bombers Muslim terrorists, the Russians warned the Feds.
At no time in human history has a government had more information available on those living in the country and around the globe than does our Federal government. Maybe the Feds ought to start using the information they have and what's right under thier nose before attacking and blaming the citizenry and American corporations.
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If I'm not mistaken Apple and Android have taken different corporate philosophies about open source operating systems. Apple believes that people need secure operating systems on their phones. This isn't a new thing, the FBI just now ran into it with a terrorists phone.
I expect apple to stick to their guns
This is much bigger than a single investigation.
I worked for a gov't agency for 30 years. The incompetency would floor just about anyone. One of the reasons they let consultants do most of their IT and techy stuff. To prove this point, the owner of the phone, the health dept. reset his password and rendered the icloud backup useless.
The San Bernardino Terrorist's iCloud Password Was Accidentally Reset By His Employer
So I have to ask the question, if the state uses it's own servers for their networks, why aren't they using their own servers for their cloud?
To my way of thinking far too much personal information is being mishandled and abused by the administration now.
The NSA has access to every call, email and text to and from the terrorists phone already. All of that gets backed up by the NSA. All the FBI has to do is request those records and they don't need a warrant to do it.
If the FBI were competent they would have been watching the terrorists conversations and email before they killed 14 people.
I think this whole business is nothing more than FBI incompetence and now they want Apple to fix it.
I might point out that while I worked for the gov't I never used any of their hardware or software for any personal business. I carried 2 phones, one agency phone and my personal phone. All work related calls were made on an agency phone. I also had an agency laptop. Same deal, no personal anything on that laptop. If I'm right, the terrorist didn't use his agency phone for personal calls or anything else.
I expect apple to stick to their guns
This is much bigger than a single investigation.I worked for a gov't agency for 30 years. The incompetency would floor just about anyone. One of the reasons they let consultants do most of their IT and techy stuff. To prove this point, the owner of the phone, the health dept. reset his password and rendered the icloud backup useless.
The San Bernardino Terrorist's iCloud Password Was Accidentally Reset By His Employer
So I have to ask the question, if the state uses it's own servers for their networks, why aren't they using their own servers for their cloud?
To my way of thinking far too much personal information is being mishandled and abused by the administration now.
The NSA has access to every call, email and text to and from the terrorists phone already. All of that gets backed up by the NSA. All the FBI has to do is request those records and they don't need a warrant to do it.
If the FBI were competent they would have been watching the terrorists conversations and email before they killed 14 people.
I think this whole business is nothing more than FBI incompetence and now they want Apple to fix it.
I might point out that while I worked for the gov't I never used any of their hardware or software for any personal business. I carried 2 phones, one agency phone and my personal phone. All work related calls were made on an agency phone. I also had an agency laptop. Same deal, no personal anything on that laptop. If I'm right, the terrorist didn't use his agency phone for personal calls or anything else.
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Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
No way. If Apple creates a back door it will be all over the internet in a week.
Either the Feds already can crack it and this is a ruse or they're after another tool...
I believe (could be wrong) that Apple has already offered to open that particular phone.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
You don't know what they would find.
You might be against the FBI going after Terrorists, but you don't know what they would find. Unless you have ESP. Do you have ESP?
There's a much bigger picture here than what the fbi might find.
Have you read anything about this at all?
Bajadoc
US Veteran
Rodger Sir, donning my foil hat. I sincerely hope Terrorism never affects you or your loved ones. It has me. I have read about it and lived it. I will live with it for the rest of my life. You have not been touched by it, I can tell.
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ChattanoogaPhil
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I don't think anyone here is against going after terrorists. I also don't think ESP is required to understand the potential abuse of the Feds having a tool to break into iPhones.
A couple years ago I listened to a Fed testifying before Congress adamantly state that the NSA is not collecting data on all our phone calls. That turned out to be a total and complete lie. these people won't be satisfied until they have a universal proctology license to conduct investigations. No thanks.
oldguyshoot
Member
The terrorists don't win when if we die, they win if we embrace fear, and they win if we sacrifice our freedom. Let's find a way to defeat them without losing who we are.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
Well they sure have you afraid someone is going to look at what is on your phone. What is on there? They are not going to win anything from me you can bet on that. I have no fear, just fight. the Terrorists and the FBI.
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G.T. Smith
US Veteran
they should be
Certainly there will soon be terrorist charges filed against those who pass gas in elevators. Well, now that I think about it, that might not be sooooo bad.[/QUOTE]
They should be charged because................wait for it.................that's just wrong on so many levels.
Peace,
Gordon
Certainly there will soon be terrorist charges filed against those who pass gas in elevators. Well, now that I think about it, that might not be sooooo bad.[/QUOTE]
They should be charged because................wait for it.................that's just wrong on so many levels.
Peace,
Gordon
A number of years ago I was pursuing a job with the FBI as an analyst, while I was doing some research I decided to look threw the Patriot Act. At that point I decided to discontinue the application process with them. I did not spend over 20 years of my life defending the Constitution just so we can pretend to be safe. Freedom has a price, while everybody is up in arms over the 2nd amendment we are cheerfully giving the 4th and 5th away. I respect the rule of law, law enforcement and our elected officials but I do not trust them.
It doesn't matter what is on the phone, there is not reason any company or person should be compelled to weaken their products for any government. The terrorists have won, they have us collectively scared that we are willing to give the government anything they want in the name of keeping us safe.
It doesn't matter what is on the phone, there is not reason any company or person should be compelled to weaken their products for any government. The terrorists have won, they have us collectively scared that we are willing to give the government anything they want in the name of keeping us safe.
LVSteve
Member
This may be a little simplistic, but once the phone is touched by somebody outside law enforcement, isn't the chain of custody broken?
Now if it was just the Cloud account that was messed with, then it is shaky as evidence but the phone is still in play IMHO.
Be advised that I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
That's not going to fool me. You're an operator and you stay at Hampton Inn.
At least that's what the code words tell me in the first post you make on Sunday.
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oldguyshoot
Member
At first I couldn't understand what you were saying, but I think it's because the moderator had to edit something out of your response.
In answer to your first part, Ill try to rephrase my original statement: I'm not afraid of terrorists, but I am afraid of America turning into a police state. And you ask what's on my phone? Mostly pictures of flowers and puppies, but that's not really the point is it?
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