Feds vs iPhone
- Thread starter ChattanoogaPhil
- Start date
geoff40
Member
In a nutshell, Apple has been ordered to create something that does not even exist (software to hack the phone)
Does a court have the right to order GM to make a car? Or a drug company to create a new drug?
Now it has come out that the County reset the phone password. The County has made the biggest blunder of this entire case. Lastly, in a thorough exam of the perp's emails and those of his wife, the FBI found no evidence of anyone else being involved in their attack. To me this indicates they are suing to undertake a fishing expedition, where it is likely they would find nothing. I prefer that the security I paid for remains very much intact on the Apple devices I own.
Does a court have the right to order GM to make a car? Or a drug company to create a new drug?
Now it has come out that the County reset the phone password. The County has made the biggest blunder of this entire case. Lastly, in a thorough exam of the perp's emails and those of his wife, the FBI found no evidence of anyone else being involved in their attack. To me this indicates they are suing to undertake a fishing expedition, where it is likely they would find nothing. I prefer that the security I paid for remains very much intact on the Apple devices I own.
chaparrito
Member
That old quote comes to mind. Was it Ben Franklin or George Carlin or somebody.... anyone who'd give up something something security something freedom deserves neither. Or something.
I said that back at post 128.
The FBI is incompetent. When you work for a gov't agency long enough you begin to understand. It's a hard wired, built in, non destructible feature of all gov't agencies. The bigger the agency, the more robust the feature becomes.
oldguyshoot
Member
Incompetent, devious, or both. The county has publicly said the FBI directed them to reset the password, so do the math here. Given the fact that they've been wanting a backdoor for a long time, the password reset looks like a deliberate attempt to force the standoff with Apple.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
If the NSA is collecting data on "all of our phone calls," why does the FBI need Apple? The whole Federal Government can't even get into one terrorists' phone and you think they are listening to every phone call. Come on, the Federal Government is as stupid and incompetent as they have ever been. The Government is not nearly as tech savvy as they let on. They can't even cover the boarders or kill Isis or get into a single telephone. A single common telephone has them stumped. What does that tell you?
That the back door will be stolen from them?
Comrad
Member
Apple doesn't have a guy like Oz behind some curtain with magical powers to write code. There are probably a couple hundred it not thousand talented programmers (geeks) with the skills to do what is necessary. This whole thing has been mishandled from the start and we should know nothing about it but now it's world news. Somebody somewhere needs to get a couple funny looking guy's with pocket protectors and taped together glasses in a room with the FBI and that phone and do the needful.
I'm a big fan of Apple products, their phone and I am writing this on a Macbook but I have to say, their stand on this has made me question my taste for their stuff. If I was in a position to decide what vendors would be part of the Federal procurement list of approved vendors I would take Apple off the approved list until they did what needs to be done.
Companies like Microsoft patch security holes all day long. Let Apple write the code then write a patch to close the hole.
Meanwhile anybody who puts confidential sensitive information on their phone isn't too smart. The phone is a way to talk to people and send some emails, listen to music get a map find a restaurant. The argument about your kids information on the phone is not valid. If your kids SS# or other confidential information are on the phone you're a dope.
Now I feel better.
I'm a big fan of Apple products, their phone and I am writing this on a Macbook but I have to say, their stand on this has made me question my taste for their stuff. If I was in a position to decide what vendors would be part of the Federal procurement list of approved vendors I would take Apple off the approved list until they did what needs to be done.
Companies like Microsoft patch security holes all day long. Let Apple write the code then write a patch to close the hole.
Meanwhile anybody who puts confidential sensitive information on their phone isn't too smart. The phone is a way to talk to people and send some emails, listen to music get a map find a restaurant. The argument about your kids information on the phone is not valid. If your kids SS# or other confidential information are on the phone you're a dope.
Now I feel better.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
They would not know the back door from a hole in the ground. An Apple engineer or a teenage hacker can run circles around our Federal Government. They would not know how to walk through the back door if it was held open for them by Lady Gaga. But it is nice to know people still believe in fairy tails.
You obviously have not kept up with what Mr. Edward Snowden has been saying.
NSA has the ability to look at electronic data to and from anyone's phone, ipad or computer. They may not be collecting all of it these days but they did in the past. If they decide to target you, every one of your electronic communications will be monitored. You can bet on it.
My guess is they have all of Farook's electronic communications by now if they didn't before he went jihad.
NSA doesn't need anything but a program to sift through the communications. PRISM was one of those programs. AT&T and Verizon let NSA store the electronic data at the same time it was being stored on their servers.
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Bajadoc
US Veteran
If Snowden was right why can't they get into a government owned (San Bernardino County) phone? Its just a basic phone. If the FBI has all of Farook's electronic communications why do they need Apple's cooperation? If the Federal Government knows everything what is the fuss about? They know everything right? Everyone seems to idealize the omniscient Federal Government. You give the inept Federal Government too much credit. Even the dummy Terrorist Farook had a phone that is still out smarting the entire Federal Government. The United States Government can't get into Farooks phone. One single Apple phone that cannot be breached. The full force of the United states Goverent cannot brech these communications.
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
In addition to agreeing with the above, I must have read 1984 too many times. Leave Apple and the iPhone alone. They know who was talked to without the phone and which of those other parties are threats. The FBI does not really need their, or my, personal conversations. Besides, NSA probably already has everything the FBI wants. Maybe if the FBI asks nicely...
My feeling is the FBI is using this investigation as a political football. That idea was already expressed. They want the courts to rule that the FBI should have the means to hack phones anytime they want, or a backdoor into the phones exclusive to the FBI which doesn't exist until Apple builds it.
The FBI has all of Farook's communications because the carrier has it, the carrier gave it to NSA and the NSA gave it to the FBI. They do it all the time legally. Do you keep up with the controversy over the Patriot Act and the USA Freedom Act? That's what this iphone thing is about, the ability of gov't to have quick access to everything on your phone, not just calls you made. These aren't just phones, they can store a lot of personal information that NSA can't see.
dougb1946
Member
As long as we are in a perpetual state of war, the govt will claim the need and right to circumvent the constitutional protections of the citizens. Revisit the book "1984". Pay attention to the TV that watched your behavior, and look at the camera on your computer(which can be hacked). Your phone has GPS, needs it to function, so somebody always knows where you are-and they can access your phone without your knowledge. Think about "Big Brother" working hard for your security. Founding fathers saw this coming and gave us the bill of rights.
Civil war, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, for the good of national security . WW2, Japanese citizens were interned-a polite way to say their property was stolen under color of authority and they were forced into camps just because. Now, we have the ill named "Patriot Act" and "Department of Homeland Security" that seem likely to stay in existence as long as we are at war. Otherwise, thousands of fine government employees would have nothing to do, if they couldn't watch us.
Civil war, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, for the good of national security . WW2, Japanese citizens were interned-a polite way to say their property was stolen under color of authority and they were forced into camps just because. Now, we have the ill named "Patriot Act" and "Department of Homeland Security" that seem likely to stay in existence as long as we are at war. Otherwise, thousands of fine government employees would have nothing to do, if they couldn't watch us.
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oldguyshoot
Member
Update: the FBI is going off the rails on a crazy train. Seriously, they have gone completely delusional, threatening to demand (I hear "take") the iOS source code:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/fbi-threatens-to-demand-apple-s-secret-source-code-214832611.html
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/fbi-threatens-to-demand-apple-s-secret-source-code-214832611.html
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Pointblank2U
US Veteran
It's all fun and games until ISIS sets off a WMD in an American City, then it's "why didn't you look in that phone?" Same old, same old, close the barn door after the horse has run off.
dougb1946
Member
If we allow the Bill of Rights to be torn apart and all rights are surrendered to the government-for our own good, of course- we have lost the battle and are no longer citizens of the United States of America. We are subjects of the crown, or what ever title the new leader chooses. The founding fathers recognized that the US could be destroyed from within easier than by an act of war, and made it difficult and cumbersome to change the constitution. They probably hadn't realized that we could roll over so easily.
This particular barn door is in place to keep the government from becoming the rulers. Give it up and it is hard to get back, maybe impossible. But we would be safer, maybe, except from more govt intrusions and more government control.
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