"Giving Away Your Position"

We have some presumptions to get to the point where a homeowner needs to rack his weapon and load it because there is an intruder.

First, the scenario always goes to a solution involving lethal force, when the reality is a complete failure to harden the house to prevent it. How and why did that person choose to invade that home, and just how was it so easily done? The homeowner who does nothing is the culprit there. Typical American stick frame construction and having windows next to doors, handing out house keys to service providers left and right, showcasing possessions that can be profitably sold off or used by the thug(s), the list goes on and on. Somebody concentrated on using lethal force as their last and only defense when in fact the intruder should have never got in.

Most of that is non gun forum stuff, but I have had some pretty good laughs reading the improbable scenarios where the innocent homeowner somehow "wakes up to a knife at their throat." I will speculate it takes leaving the door unlocked, showing off their guns to a "friend of a friend" the previous week, and in many other ways inadvertently but actively assisting said intruder with how to get in easily and how profitable it would be.

Now we have someone treading around in a dark house - who decided to enter even tho all the cars are parked out front, no animals are barking, the doorlocks were melted butter, and they have an idea They Can Prevail Regardless. Yet the homeowner keeps his firearm empty, has to load it, and it's usually put away somewhere out of reach.

All to defend their turf when they could just as easily slip out the window and run for the back fence, calling 911 on they way. It may not be a state regulation, but leaving the home is a GOOD tactical idea when it's available as it does a lot of things gunfight instructors teach - it creates distance, it puts obstacles in their way, and you can live to fight another day.

Why stay and become part of the lethal situation when, if you leave, you disable it and prevent somebody getting killed. Where is it written that we absolutely must interpose our will and act? I will suggest it comes from people who think the average person would appear as a coward - because they think they would be. Sorry, nobody gets to decide that for you or me.

They don't have to live with the results of their cheerleading, won't have their name in the paper, won't have the cops walking thru their house for many hours, won't have their guns confiscated as evidence, won't have bloodstains on their carpet.

Just all fine and dandy for you, tho.

They sleep peacefully in their bed with no nightmares, reoccurring stress and prone to overreaction due to similar situations when something goes bump in the night again.

And we are talking the good shoots. Woe be to anyone if it was actually an innocent.

But, we blithely ignore that and any attempt to fortify the house and operate it with a sense of security so we can drag out lethal force and blaze away justified we are doing the right thing. I see it as planning a killing by negligence in securing your house and attracting an intruder.

How about you leave the shotgun where you keep it - loaded and ready - and do more about repelling the intruders instead of allowing them in? It's very similar to situations where refugees have been welcomed with open arms by some European governments only to suffer from terrorist acts.

Don't let them get in in the first place. As for it being your home, go out the back and dial 911. You don't really want to be in the middle of a gunfight with high penetration ammo from all sides making your bedroom swiss cheese. Worse yet you put your family as the backstop behind you - cause that's the direction an intruder is going to shoot.

Your first line of defense? Yeah, a "racking the shotgun" effort - alarm goes off, lights come on, dog barking, etc. Someone casing the house will see higher risk, and move on. It's what they do - look for the easy jobs because they won't get hurt. Let them go down the block and hit the guy with no alarm, lights, no dog, and who plans to wake up in time - just ask him - so he can leap out of bed and rack his shotgun.

Nope, by then your Home Defense is a fail. They are already in and nothing has been done to stop them. I'm going to ask, with that type of forward planning, do you have a forensics house cleaner picked out? Do they guarantee they can get blood out of your carpet?

Ask your wife if that's a contact number in her cell phone and see what kind of look you get.

Practice getting out the back window if possible. Egress is a better solution than holing up and hoping the cops come soon enough and don't shoot you themselves.
 
It may not be a state regulation, but leaving the home is a GOOD tactical idea when it's available as it does a lot of things gunfight instructors teach - it creates distance, it puts obstacles in their way, and you can live to fight another day.

.

Don't you mean "live to RUN another day?"

I don't believe anyone is a culprit in their own home, minding their own business. I do, however, agree a responsible person should plan ahead for the worst case scenarios, first to protect themselves (and perhaps their property). I have gone far beyond what is required by law to deter a would-be intruder. I don't look forward to ever having to defend myself or loved ones, but I have prepared to do so if required. I will not, however, attempt to flee my home in order to not fatally injure an aggressor in my own home.
I wholeheartedly agree one can prevent such circumstances most of the time by planning ahead and spending some money for common sense defenses.
Quickly fleeing out a window or door isn't an option for people with certain types of windows, or bedrooms on an upper level. Casement windows don't open quickly, nor are screens removed quickly.
The only thing I strongly disagree with in tirod's post is the statement one is a culprit defending themselves in their own home. Running is not an option that really fixes anything or deters crime. I'm not looking for a fight, but don't think I won't put up a fight in the case of home intrusion where there is an eminent danger and risk of bodily harm. I won't risk being shot in the back trying to escape.

You beat me to the punch. I was going to add a comment that says essentially what yours does. Kudos!!
 
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I don't believe anyone is a culprit in their own home, minding their own business. I do, however, agree a responsible person should plan ahead for the worst case scenarios, first to protect themselves (and perhaps their property). I have gone far beyond what is required by law to deter a would-be intruder. I don't look forward to ever having to defend myself or loved ones, but I have prepared to do so if required. I will not, however, attempt to flee my home in order to not fatally injure an aggressor in my own home.
I wholeheartedly agree one can prevent such circumstances most of the time by planning ahead and spending some money for common sense defenses.
Quickly fleeing out a window or door isn't an option for people with certain types of windows, or bedrooms on an upper level. Casement windows don't open quickly, nor are screens removed quickly.
The only thing I strongly disagree with in tirod's post is the statement one is a culprit defending themselves in their own home. Running is not an option that really fixes anything or deters crime. I'm not looking for a fight, but don't think I won't put up a fight in the case of home intrusion where there is an eminent danger and risk of bodily harm. I won't risk being shot in the back trying to escape.
 
Illinois has both a "Castle" law and a "Stand Your Ground" law.

Many here seem to think they should give some kind of command to a Perp that has broken into your home to I guess either give up or be shot .. they're afraid they're going to shoot someone that is innocent if they don't .. but how can that be if they're in your home uninvited at an odd time of the night ..

many murders are accidental when a person is confronted and out of fear the burglar does something that kills the home owner !! They had no intention other then to rob a home but because they were found out violence was the end result !! That scenario happened to the neighbor of a friend .. she awoke to some one burglarizing her home while her husband was a work and that person killed her .. sadly we both knew the murderer as did the victim ..

I have a GSD and if a BG(s) breaks into my home she will let everyone know there is a stranger in the house .. if they were to harm her and continue into my home there would be no warning from me .. at night there are several night lights that are bright enough and in the right position to back light anyone approaching the bedrooms .. during the day I carry all day every day .. living here in the country there is never a time when I don't have a pistol on me ..
 
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'The homeowner who does nothing is the culprit there.'

Rilly?

I have no duty, legally nor morally, to even lock my door.
 
That is not entirely accurate. You have no duty to retreat in your own residence in Minnesota. Obviously, you can't execute an intruder like that guy in Little Falls did either.


State v. Carothers (1999): No duty to retreat in home;
State v. Bard (2002): No duty to retreat in home is retroactive.

Minnesota Statute 609.056 also provides a separate rule for the use of deadly force when in our "place of abode." Place of abode refers to your actual dwelling and does not include your land, detached garage, storage shed, etc. This section states that deadly force is allowable "when preventing the commission of a felony" in our home, however, case law has confirmed that the reasonable rule in 609.06 also applies here.

If he's headed out the door with your TV, probably should let him run. It's Minnesota nice. Not Castle law. Need a reasonable man reason to shoot.

Guy in Little Falls set a trap. Possibly miswired, definitely deserves jail time.
 
Don't you mean "live to RUN another day?"



You beat me to the punch. I was going to add a comment that says essentially what yours does. Kudos!!

People seem to assume that they will always win. The gun is not armor. If the BG is armed, your gun gives you an option. It's not a Johnson contest. The objective is to stay alive, you and yours. If getting out does that, get out. If you can not get out and have no other option, then you use the gun. Not all BGs are cowards, and some can shoot. Some have military training and some grew up in neighborhoods that would chew the rest of us up and spit us out. Some are on drugs and you could shoot your mag empty and they keep coming. But it's the internet. Doit your way.
 
No amount of drugs is gonna matter after they take a brenekee and one of my 12 pellet OO loads. Tough to carry the fight with no heart, lungs, or spine.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
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Getting out alive is good, but stopping the perp from attacking anyone else is better.

The 2nd Amendment not only recognizes your right to have a gun, but your DUTY to have a gun. YOU are the well regulated militia.
 
Getting out alive is good, but stopping the perp from attacking anyone else is better.

I'm not a cop. It's not my job.

I'm not a judge. It's not my job.

I'm not a jury. It's not my job.

And I'm sure as hell not an executioner. It's not my job.

What I am is a private citizen who happens to own some guns. Great that I have them, I don't have to rely completely on the police if it comes down to it.

The question is not, "Can I shoot someone?" or "Is it legal to shoot this person?".

It's "Do I have to shoot?"
 
I'm not a cop. It's not my job.

I'm not a judge. It's not my job.

I'm not a jury. It's not my job.

And I'm sure as hell not an executioner. It's not my job.

What I am is a private citizen who happens to own some guns. Great that I have them, I don't have to rely completely on the police if it comes down to it.

The question is not, "Can I shoot someone?" or "Is it legal to shoot this person?".

It's "Do I have to shoot?"[/QUOTE]


Answer: You never HAVE to shoot!
 
You are the militia.

When it comes to preemptively removing someone from circulation, I sure ain't.

Ditto for where my responsibilities lie. My primary ethical responsibility is to my family first, then to myself. I don't have an equal responsibility to my neighbor.

Thus, shooting some guy and getting locked up, sued, or (worse) losing the gunfight, fails my primary ethical duty.

If you want to sit around and quote the 2A at me, you've come to the wrong place. I deal in realities, not ideology.

Protected One said:
Answer: You never HAVE to shoot!

Semantic argument. I could just sit around, holding my gun, while I get beat to death with a rock. But most people would agree that standing still while being bludgeoned to death does not count as a viable option.
 
here's what I'd do;
Fort up in the bedroom.
holler I'm armed and will shoot anyone who enters
call 911 from cell.
Tell call taker where in house I am, that I'm armed, and the PO leece need to know that. Sit back, aim at the door, and if it opens before I see red and blue lights outside,
one quick flashlight blast to be sure it ain't a cop, or someone I know,
then drop the guy like a sack of fertilizer.
 
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