Guns In Vehicles: Don't Do It.

[federali]

The subject of guns in vehicles comes up all the time. You may even buy holsters or gun holders intended for "car carry." I always advise people not to leave guns in vehicles for any reason. As the firearms custodian for a federal law enforcement agency, I can attest that, nationwide, we've lost many guns stolen from vehicles, including at least a half dozen Remington 870s to be used at the range on the day they were stolen. And, we were a small law enforcement agency.

This brings us to the July 1st. fatal shooting of Kate Steinle on the San Francisco Pier by an illegal alien. The gun used was stolen from the parked vehicle of a federal agent assigned to the Bureau of Land Management.

First, if that was your gun, you now have to live with the fact you have unwittingly initiated a chain of events leading to the loss of life. Then, there's a question of potential civil liability. If I'm injured or killed with a lawfully owned firearm that was stored in a negligent manner, do I, or my next-of-kin have a cause of action? I would think so.

The circumstances under which a gun may be safely left in vehicles should be limited to when you are in direct sight of your vehicle, such as through a diner window or perhaps while you attend a little league ball game. In the case in question, the vehicle was broken into. More often, the vehicle itself is stolen. So, think twice about guns in vehicles. I don't know the extent of civil responsibility but I do know that I'm morally responsible if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands.

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

If he was on "Official Business", why would he have left his "Duty Gun" in the car?

Makes me wonder why did he leave his gun in his car, and why he didn't take it with him.

 

[mike campbell]

MY house can be broken into. A butcher knife can be stolen and used to kill someone. My car can be stolen and used to run someone over. An armed mugger could get the drop on me and disarm me.

I'm not morally responsible for the actions of criminals that I don't willingly abet.

 

[fixitfred]

That's a ridiculous argument.

Don't leave guns at home they may break in and steal them.

You're not liable for a criminal act just like manufacturers of impliments of evil. Neither are the gun shops or merchants of death responsible.

 

[allkindsofstuff-11]

This is the type of reasoning that leads to "sensable gun control" and in my opinion is fundamentally wrong.

 

[arjay]

Apparently you people have never had a car looted.Grab a brick,bust the window and clean it out.Takes 15 seconds and they are gone,think about it.

 

[M29since14]

I understand you are sincere and wish to possibly save someone the anguish you might feel in such an incident but I respectfully disagree that anyone is morally responsible for the actions of another who steals a weapon LOCKED in your car or in your home. You are entitled to feel that way if you wish but I think the position is indefensible if applied to others. If taken to extremes that philosophy will effectively end private ownership of almost anything that could be used as a weapon. Let's place the blame, both morally and legally, where it really belongs.

 

[fixitfred]

Apparently you people have never had a car looted.Grab a brick,bust the window and clean it out.Takes 15 seconds and they are gone,think about it.

I have a safe that's cabled to the seat post. I can keep it safe my problem is access. Yea you can get into it but it'll take more time than the average smash and grabber might want to spend. I can open the combo without looking but need to reach back and do it.

 

[Old TexMex]

Reality check

Tell it to the judge in the civil proceedings. "Your Honor, I was going to take a shower, and didn't want my firearm in the bathroom with me, so I locked it in my car. Who would ever think my car would be broken into."

Regardless to the feelings of guilt (I'm no one to judge anothers morality) just the economics and time loss as a result of Federalis scenario should be recognized.

He was quite specific: auto burglary aspect of gun storage.

As for the snarky comments directed to a law enforcement officer, I believe we have some standards on this forum regarding that.

 

[hoc9sw]

I've have home and car cleaned out. No, I have no moral concern about what happens to things that they steal from me. They are the criminals, and should bear all the responsibility.

 

[Old TexMex]

I've have home and car cleaned out. No, I have no moral concern about what happens to things that they steal from me. They are the criminals, and should bear all the responsibility.

They should bear the full responsibility, but will they?
In a civil suit? Brought by a deep pocket anti like Bloomburg?
Roll the dice.

 

[Decker]

As the firearms custodian for a federal law enforcement agency, I can attest that, nationwide, we've lost many guns stolen from vehicles, including at least a half dozen Remington 870s to be used at the range on the day they were stolen. And, we were a small law enforcement agency.


The circumstances under which a gun may be safely left in vehicles should be limited to when you are in direct sight of your vehicle, such as through a diner window or perhaps while you attend a little league ball game.

Mr. Firearms Custodian,
I ONLY leave my gun in my car when I arrive at a place that is posted to not allow them.
So now would you like to rethink who's responsible and maybe look to gun laws that require that upstanding citizens who are licensed to carry should be able to sue those businesses and government locations that do not allow us to carry on their premises?

I am always uncomfortable leaving my gun in the car and do not do so lightly, so what say that you, in your capacity of Firearms Custodian, actively work to change the laws that require me to be irresponsible?

 

[Bullet Bob]

All I know is that if it had been my gun that was stolen and used, my name would be all over the news and media would be camped at my door.

It must be good to have the protection of fellow LEO's.

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

I don't leave a gun in the PU unless I have to go somewhere it's illegal to carry. (Post office, etc..) And when I do they are locked in a nano vault attached to the floor. That way I'm "covered" legally so to speak. Someone could break in and steel it but that would take awhile and if you all could see my little truck there's very little chance it will be boosted. (Read run down and used with a dinky 4cylinder that's still running.)

 

[federali]

Thread Drift

I was indeed specifically referring to firearms left in vehicles. If you can accept the premise that all legitimate firearms begin life as a legally manufactured and legally owned instruments, eventually, some of those firearms end up in criminal hands and it's the criminal misuse of firearms that now has a number of well-funded groups trying to disarm all of us. It's just a matter of each of us doing our part to minimize the number of guns at risk of theft.

The country is averaging 700,000 auto thefts annually and I was born, raised and lived and worked in a city averaging more than 200 auto thefts daily. So, my thoughts are a bit more jaundiced than those of you lucky enough to live in areas with little crime.

And here's a no-brainer: don't leave your handgun in the nightstand if you're not at home.

 

[Old TexMex]

Federali, thanks for dealing in reality, rather than an imagined world where only the criminal is blamed.
I might not feel bad about what a car thief does with my firearm, but I'd sure feel bad when I lost my home to pay for a civil case defense.

Agee that the nonsense of gun free zones is why we're forced to leave our firearms in our vehicle, but it is what it is until we get the changes made.
Until that day comes....I'm not setting myself up to be used by anti gunners who use the "stolen gun scenario" as a reason to disarm me.
Jim

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A lot of folks I know have guns in their vehicles.

In Tennessee it's legal to have a loaded gun in the car without a carry permit. Obviously all those guns must remain in the vehicle when parked somewhere other than at home. There may have been, but I haven't heard of anyone being prosecuted in Tennessee because of a gun stolen out of their vehicle. Why blame the victim?
Prosecutor: Why did you leave the gun in the vehicle at Walmart?
Defendant: Because it would have been illegal to carry it out of the vehicle.

Not that long ago a Hendersonville, TN LEO had a gun stolen out of his patrol car parked at home in the driveway overnight. He wasn't charged with anything. And he wasn't in violation of any department policy.

As far as a moral issue... that's something only a man can answer for himself. For me, I feel no moral responsibility for the actions of criminals. Self-flagellation over the actions of others is highly overrated IMO.

ps. The gun someone has in their car might just save their life one day.

 

[kenjen]

I always though that your "protection permit" was good for giving you the right to conceal your firearm on your body. you need to be in control of your fire arm at all times when you carry it.

 

[Photog]

So, not to be really sarcastic, maybe just a little, how does one move across the country if they have guns? Obviously not many can drive the many hours straight without stopping for sleep or to eat or to use the facilities. So that being said, you have your gun collection of, say, 50 guns in your vehicle while moving, do you put them all in a big bag and take them with you when you go to use the restroom or get a drink? This type of post it great fuel for anti gunners as it follows their way of thinking, that gun owners should be held criminally or at the very least, in a civil manner, as to who uses one of their guns that was acquired illegally.
So, to agree with another poster, if your car is stolen and it is used in any crime, then you are responsible. If you have medication stolen, and it is sold on the street still in the prescription bottle you had it in, then you are guilty of trafficking, if someone steals your credit card and then uses it for some huge purchase, then you should pay since you didn't keep it locked up and safe. Ridiculous? Yes! But that is the same premise you are posing, that someone takes something of yours and uses it wrongly, then you should be held responsible. Sad, really, that the word responsibility is slowly becoming obsolete. Blame it on someone else....

 

[SMSgt]

Unless your state law states otherwise, a locked vehicle is secured as it takes forcible entry to break in. There is no liability with forced entry.

It may not be the best manner of secured, but neither is any safe less than Fort Knox, KY.