Heavy Clothing Stops .38 Wadcutter!

[Shibadog]

Huge difference between a mild target wad cutter and a high velocity hard cast-it’s all about bullet composition and velocity. Hardcasr at high velocity will penetrate quite nicely thank you. Soft slugs at low velocity make nice holes in paper. Different horses for different courses.

 

[AJ]

I don't think anyone has said that "Larry from Jiffy Lube" shoot better than the police. Some police officers leave a bit to be desired with their level of proficiency.

The average individual that uses our local range has many faults when using a firearm. Accuracy being the primary one. Can post pictures of the wooden target carriages shot to bits. holes in the baffles (used to try to keep rounds from exiting the range, holes in the uprights, holes in the roof over the line to keep the sun/rain off, and holes in the benches. Also every once in a while the ricochet marks on the cement floor.

OMG AJ...you almost had me in tears!!!

I forgot to add holes in some of the inept patrons that did it themselves and the other poor folks that got in the way of the inept patrons. Not many, but enough to keep your head on a swivel!

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

A couple of observations here. Fifty years ago pistol (revolver) qualifications in the police academy started at the fifty yard line. 6 prone and 6 standing barricade. Then jog to the 25 yard line and fire 18, kneeling barricade, 6 strong side, 6 over the top and 6 weak hand. Both shooting and reloading were part of the time. Then 12 at 15 yards, 12 at 7 and 6 close up. Total 60 rounds 70% required to pass. Double action required from 25 yards on in.

Then in the mid to late '80's the wonder nine came into play. More bullets and easier to shoot than a D/A revolver. But the qualification course was reduced to 25 yards and 50 rounds. No weak hand at the 25. That's now saved for the seven. Reloading is not part of the timed course.

Isn't this just wonderful. Now that's just a requirement for one particular densely populated state. YMMV.

A lot of this stems from lawsuits and court ordered changes to the Police Training Commission requirements. After all, those lawyers and judges know better than the Police Academy Directors and the State Police Colonel. Affirmative action making your streets safer one recruit at a time.

 

[AJ]

A couple of observations here. Fifty years ago pistol (revolver) qualifications in the police academy started at the fifty yard line. 6 prone and 6 standing barricade. Then jog to the 25 yard line and fire 18, kneeling barricade, 6 strong side, 6 over the top and 6 weak hand. Both shooting and reloading were part of the time. Then 12 at 15 yards, 12 at 7 and 6 close up. Total 60 rounds 70% required to pass. Double action required from 25 yards on in.

Then in the mid to late '80's the wonder nine came into play. More bullets and easier to shoot than a D/A revolver. But the qualification course was reduced to 25 yards and 50 rounds. No weak hand at the 25. That's now saved for the seven. Reloading is not part of the timed course.

Isn't this just wonderful. Now that's just a requirement for one particular densely populated state. YMMV.

A lot of this stems from lawsuits and court ordered changes to the Police Training Commission requirements. After all, those lawyers and judges know better than the Police Academy Directors and the State Police Colonel. Affirmative action making your streets safer one recruit at a time.

We (the folks in the Corps) had to qualify with a handgun for shooting badges on what was basically an NRA Bullseye course in the 70's & 80's. When I went to a Marine Barracks as the Guard Chief, we had the standard qual course. But also a combat course pretty much as you described. Our reloads were included in the timing. We shot this with the M1911, revolvers and M870 shotguns. Not sure what it is now.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

AJ, I can't remember what the course of fire was for the 870 but it included 00B and slugs. We held a show us your bruise contest the next day.

Funny how people think holding a 12 ga. an inch away from the shoulder would help. We always warned them, we always did a demonstration. The winner never listened.

BTW, the bruise contest was always first thing in the morning. The morning of "Gas Day" CN, CS & OC. that was when the instructors paid back the wise guys. Fun times.

 

[AJ]

AJ, I can't remember what the course of fire was for the 870 but it included 00B and slugs. We held a show us your bruise contest the next day.

Funny how people think holding a 12 ga. an inch away from the shoulder would help. We always warned them, we always did a demonstration. The winner never listened.

BTW, the bruise contest was always first thing in the morning. The morning of "Gas Day" CN, CS & OC. that was when the instructors paid back the wise guys. Fun times.

When I attended Battalion Schools Combat Shotgun Course, our three day shotgun course was 350 rounds of 00 Buck and slug. Several times we had to shoot the strings of fire again, so probably 400 rounds or so. Bruising after that many rounds is not to be believed! Taught this course for a while thereafter.......

 

[rwsmith]

If I'm going to use a wadcutter.....

...in a DEFENSIVE round, I'm going to load it like it's a defensive round. Not like a target load.

 

[fatcat3]

Sgt. Buzzard​

We still used the S&W m65 until after Y2K, and our course was similar except no SA. and yes when we switched to autos we had the same lowering of standards.