HELP - stuck model 19 cylinder

[magnumb]

the extractor pin is full tightened, so that's not the issue. This all started when started reloading. Some of my rounds are just tad over diameter to insert into the chamber without a little nudge. At one point the cylinder would not swing open even with the release pushed forward.
Probably a bad thing, I applied additional force and got the cylinder open.

I took the cylinder apart, cleaned and lubricated thoroughly.

I noticed two "rough, raised areas on the rear frame, relatively near the hand area. I gently stoned these back to flat, and followed up polishing those spots with some flitz and a dremmel polishing bit.

After experimenting some I discovered that I can pull back the hammer, release the cylinder and rotate thru the positions. In 4 positions the cylinder will not swing open (I'm not going to force it again). In the other two position (adjacent chambers) the cylinder will swing open, but is still a little rough. Note this is happening with no cartridges in the revolver.

Can someone help me figure out what parts may be damaged and need to be replaced? extractor? cylinder release? Hand?

I would like to fix myself if possible. If fitting parts will be required I guess I will need to find a revolver smith.

All help appreciated

 

[armorer951]

Judging by your description, it sounds like the yoke has been bent out of alignment. It doesn't take much damage here to cause cylinder rotation issues, and opening/closing problems.

There could also be problems with individual parts like the center pin and extractor.

I would take it to your trusted local revolversmith, if you are fortunate enough to have one.

Factory Customer Service/Repair may also an option, depending on how you feel concerning sending a firearm back.

 

[steelslaver]

Bent ejector rod also possible

 

[magnumb]

center pin? extractor rod? I used quite a bit of force to get that cylinder to open, and those parts are small compared to the yoke.

Why would a bent extractor rod keep the cylinder from opening?

I'm clearly over my head here. If I can just order some simple parts I would give that a try. Problem with most smiths is they work on striker fired pistols, 1911s, and ar-15s mostly. I need a revolver smith apparently

 

[BMCM]

A couple things that might help...

Brownells has a yoke alignment gauging tool. helps you quickly identify a bent yoke including how much and in what clocking direction it's bent.

BROWNELLS YOKE/CRANE ALIGNMENT TOOL | Brownells

Same tool I believe that PTG makes however they're OOS

Yoke and Crane Alignment Tool S&W K, L, N-Frame - Pacific Tool and Gauge

And the other thing...

Everytime you take the cylinder assembly apart and put it back together you will always introduce some degree of runout in the extractor rod. Meaning once you screw the exctractor rod back onto the extractor shank it's not straight anymore.

You have to have to check for that runout or bend anytime the cylinder assembly... having been taken apart is reassembled.

With the cylinder swung open mounted on the yoke, just give it a spin, if the extractor rod is wobbling...that's the runout and needs to be corrected.

While one can straighten the extractor rod right on the revolver, I think there's too much risk of reintroducing a bend or springing the yoke that way. So, I prefer to dismount the cylinder assembly and correct any runout on a fixture. I aim for no more than 0.002" runout on the extractor rod on the complete cylinder assembly.

if your yoke is sprung or bent and in addition you have some runout of the extractor rod that just makes things way worse and can certainly cause some problems such as you describe.

Cheers
Bill

 

[magnumb]

thank you, this is getting pretty deep for my skills. I will look for runout. 0.002 isn't lint. Why is this so critical. I thought I was doing a good thing by taking the cylinder apart for cleaning Ugggg!

 

[toad67]

Since the cylinder rotates in the yolk and the yolk doesn't spin, wouldn't it be tough to open on all 6 holes if the yolk was bent?
If you open it on one of the difficult holes, is it tough to close it also, or does it close easier?

 

[magnumb]

Update. Checked gap at forcing cone and recoil shield today. The Cylinder is not hanging up on either end. Also with the hammer (or trigger) slightly pulled back the cylinder rotates freely.
Today for some reason could not get it to open in any position. It almost seems like the shaft that goes past the extractor star is suck in the hole on the recoil shield. Before when I could get it opened I noticed that the little medal stub that come thru the recoil shield was actually a little bit below flush.

I'm guessing the next step would be to remove the sideplate to attempt to free the cylinder? What part do you think is preventing opening?

 

[armorer951]

Could be seized lubricant inside the cylinder assembly center pin area, or under the sideplate. This debris would prevent the center pin from moving forward to allow the cylinder to be opened.
Does the thumbpiece (cylinder release) move forward as it should?

(I would suggest backing off the mainspring strain screw two turns prior to removing the sideplate.....and, do not cycle the action under full spring pressure with the plate removed)

After sideplate removal you can try pressing forward on the back side of the front leg of the bolt if the thumbpiece won't move forward. This should move the center pin forward, and allow the cylinder to swing out...... unless the center pin is frozen with old lube.

Also, make sure the front locking lug under the barrel at the front end of the extractor rod is not bound up or frozen in place for some reason. Use caution when moving parts under the sideplate....do not force them.

 

[len917]

I have had some problems similar to that on my 15-3 and 36-1 via squibs.
I have straightened the bent yoke on 15-3 in a vise with plastic hammer until all was parallel. for the 36-1 I bought from Numrich a center pin and spring and extractor rod for not very much money. The 36-1 works perfect now. Still playing with the 15-3.
If you have no revolversmiths nearby then try yourself. These parts do not need fitting.

 

[magnumb]

the cylinder release moves OK. I can see the (not sure of the name) little metal rod that holds the extractor in place at the yoke move back and forth when the release is actuated. My guess is that I bent the extractor rod, center pin, or yoke forcing the stuck cylinder open.
Now I can't even open the cylinder to inspect these parts.
How can I get the cylinder to open so I can inspect?

 

[armorer951]

If you can't release the cylinder by pressing forward on the back side of the front leg of the bolt after removing the sideplate, try removing the thumbpiece nut to see if the thumbpiece is interfering ....or hosing out the area under the sideplate with some Gunscrubber, or similar. There may be some crud under the bolt. (be sure to relieve some tension on the mainspring if you take the plate off)

Have you confirmed that the extractor rod is tight?

 

[ChargerBill]

When you were able to open the cylinder in 2 out of 6 positions, were the 2 positions next to each other or exactly opposite each other?

 

[BMCM]

Why is this so critical. I thought I was doing a good thing by taking the cylinder apart for cleaning Ugggg!

Detail stripping the cylinder assembly is not something to ever be done as a part of routing cleaning & maintenance. Only to address or correct a mechanical fault should it be taken apart for diagnosing or correcting the fault condition. Worn out ratchets would be an example that would merit detail striping the cylinder assembly in order to repair or replace the extractor star.

I had a pre M27 here on the healing bench some time back that had a similar problem to yours with the jamming up.

What I found on that gun was the yoke bent inward, or to the right from the shooter's perspective about 0.045" and compounding the issue with this revolver, the extractor rod had about 0.025" of runout.

What we saw here was at one point in the cylinder rotation the bends in the yoke & rod would sort of cancel each other out... rotate the cylinder 180° or three chargeholes, and it would lock up solid with the face of the cylinder wedged against the barrel shank. Once I straightened the yoke and corrected the extractor rod runout it was good to go.

My assessment was at some point someone had been slamming the cylinder shut or was practicing the TV show wrist flick. Not healthy for any revolver but especially problematic for a .357 "N" frame with their very heavy cylinders.

Cheers
Bill