Help with an unknown wooden cartridge please

[Oldsalt66]

8x54R blank.

 

[DWalt]

8x54R blank.

It is actually the 8x56R. 8mm Kropatechek? - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

 

[smoothshooter]

It looks like the cases are metallic and only the bullets are wooden.
Short range training rounds are what they are.
One of my great uncles was shot through the jaw side to side by a Japanese soldier with one of those on one of the pacific islands during WW II. Lost several molars and had to have wooden splinters pulled out of his gums and tongue, in addition to surgery on surrounding tissue.
The ones in the picture may or may not have powder in them.
Probably do, though.

 

[DWalt]

It looks like the cases are metallic and only the bullets are wooden.
Short range training rounds are what they are.
One of my great uncles was shot through the jaw side to side by a Japanese soldier with one of those on one of the pacific islands during WW II. Lost several molars and had to have wooden splinters pulled out of his gums and tongue, in addition to surgery on surrounding tissue.
The ones in the picture may or may not have powder in them.
Probably do, though.

Stories of both Japanese and German use of wooden rifle bullets in actual combat during WWII are typically rumor, hearsay, and half-truth. They are unsupported by any hard evidence. The Japanese did use wooden bulleted rifle ammunition for propelling rifle grenades (as did the British), so it was certainly possible that some Japanese solders were found to be carrying some. But such ammunition was not intended for antipersonnel use by itself as it would have been extremely ineffective for that purpose.

 

[2152hq]

I've got a handful of the wooden bullet Kropatechek rounds as well.
The rifle long gone, wish I still had it.

Some of the wooden bullet rounds used by some countrys have the bullets made as a hollow projectile. This to better ensure the bullet breaks up on it's trip down the bore and upon it's exit at the muzzle.
The Steyr rifling is very deep and likely helped slice the bullet into pieces if that was the intension.

The wooden bullet form likely needed so the rifle would operate as a repeated for training purposes. A simple crimped brass blank not always a workable round in all mechanisms.

I seem to recall reading that the Dutch used a hollow wooden bullet as a training/blank round in their 1895 Mannlicher rifle&carbine as well.

FA making ammo for Portugal in 1904?....hey why not. It's money and it keeps the machines and employees busy

 

[OFT II]

I wonder why FA wasn't busy making that new 30/03 cartridge for the U.S. military.

 

[venomballistics]

That definitely looks like it. Thanks DWalt.
What is the use of this wooden round?

Wood can have a few purposes.
Training
It can put something in the general direction of a target without Private Pyle mowing down the rest of the troops to any appreciable effect.
Crowd control.
Like the rubber bullet, It'll certainly apply motivational energy upon it's recipient.
Blank.
With enough power behind it, disintegration is the expected result.

In no case is it an optimal solution. It's hard to imagine resorting to this today

 

[.455_Hunter]

Looking at the pictures in this thread, pretty sure "FA" is not the "FA" many people seem to think.

 

[chief38]

While I am no expert at wooden bullets, I am aware that both Germany and Japan used wooden bullets at the end of the war. They simply ran out of resources to make metal ones.

 

[rockquarry]

8mm Guedes

 

[DWalt]

8mm Guedes

The 8mm Guedes was the predecessor to the 8mm Kropatschek, and had a 4mm longer case neck. They are not the same cartridge. 8 X 60R GUEDES | Cartridge Collector

 

[DWalt]

Wood can have a few purposes.
Training
It can put something in the general direction of a target without Private Pyle mowing down the rest of the troops to any appreciable effect.
Crowd control.
Like the rubber bullet, It'll certainly apply motivational energy upon it's recipient.
Blank.
With enough power behind it, disintegration is the expected result.

In no case is it an optimal solution. It's hard to imagine resorting to this today

If wooden bullets were the answer, armies would return to using bows and arrows. Tales of wood small arms projectiles used in combat are fictional.

 

[rwsmith]

Ye gads!

This is a story about the Swede wood bullet breakup muzzle device. The idea of the wood bullet is to improve feeding and chambering of the cartridge from the magazine. I have lots of Swedish militaria but not a muzzle bullet breakup device. Swedish Blank Firing Device - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

People died of TETANUS from fired blanks?!?!? Holy Cow!

 

[desi2358]

I wonder why FA wasn't busy making that new 30/03 cartridge for the U.S. military.

The FA is Fabrica Armas, a Portuguese manufacturer, not the US Frankford Arsenal.

 

[scattershot]

It’s not a blank.SeveralEuropean countries used wooden bullets in their practice ammunition.

 

[DWalt]

I can't say what the wooden bullet rounds were used for, probably several military applications such as use during combat training exercises and for various ceremonial purposes. As I mentioned earlier, several armies used V-B rifle grenades with wood bulleted rifle loads as propellants. But they were not used for shooting at the enemy.

Regarding U.S. .30 military ammunition (.30-40 Krag, .30-'03, and .30-'06), there were blank cartridges of several types made and used, but none using wooden bullets were adopted for general issue.There was considerable experimentation done at Frankford Arsenal on the development of wooden bulleted .30-'06 ammunition suitable for use in machine guns for training purposes, between 1912 and 1919. There were numerous wooden bullet cartridge designs developed and tested, but in the end, none were made in larger than developmental and evaluation quantities, and none were issued. The largest lot made was 100,000 rounds.