How to counterfeit a Brill holster.

[rednichols]

Lots of copies of the Brill out there, but none are exact replicas. That's because it's not a matter of giving an artist's rendition of a photo the maker saw once on the 'net, to replicate a Brill. Not least because there were two Brill 'eras'.

These pics show how to accurately reproduce a late-model (that is, post 1932 as imagined by its original creator, N.J. Rabensburg). To build an early-model Brill (that is, prior to 1932) one would need a different set of instructions.

Step one: buy a late-model Brill for at least a 4" DA revolver; a short-barrelled DA revolver (they're a very different design); a 4-3/4" SAA; and a 1911 (Rangers used the 38 Super auto version).

Step two: 'explode' them into what are called 'provenance patterns' from the leather pieces; so-called because they are your evidence (even for your own review) that they are original: the cardboard is glued to the leather, then cut to match without changes. This one is a Sessums (leather on the other side):



Step three: you'll need a pattern-driven chain stitch machine for the muzzle lip, chain stitch visible on the backside (see Step four image).

Step four: you'll need a thin vegetable tanned leather for the half or full lining, with a hard finish. Kangaroo is ideal, very likely Rabensburg used goatskin in 1 mm thickness.



Step five: note the comments on the images that follow.







Note: perfectly acceptable to use no logo on the cuff; or initials. Using the Brill stamp, though, is called 'passing off': sometimes illegal, always wrong.

Note 2: everyone has spotted the obvious 'trademark' methodology used for Brill basket stamping on both early and late Brills; no need to explain it here. There are no known 'plain' genuine Brills (although there were 6 other companies that made them under their own name, including Myres, and included plain finish).

 

[brucev]

My cow! Have one or two nice holsters. This is beyond anything I've ever seen except in pictures. Sometimes pictures go beyond 1,000 words. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[keith44spl]

Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.

* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.

 

[wheelgun610]

....* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.

You and I need to get better acquainted....

Mark

 

[iPac]

I would love to make holsters, but don't have the equipment needed. I'm completely self sufficient in all aspects of my gun hobby, except holster making, so it has crossed my mind. Although, I have modified existing holsters to better suit my needs and make them better, half way there. Plus, I would be able to make it exactly how I want it.

Maybe one day. Thanks for the interesting instructions and tips though.

 

[richardw]

In this case the word counterfeit does not apply. Remember counterfeiting is a crime when it comes to money of propert that is protected by Trademark or Copyright law. In the case of a 1932 item no,longer inproduction those protections have expired. So, there was no counterfitting. The holster was legally recreated. Words matter

 

[jhnttrpp]

In this case the word counterfeit does not apply. Remember counterfeiting is a crime when it comes to money of propert that is protected by Trademark or Copyright law. In the case of a 1932 item no,longer inproduction those protections have expired. So, there was no counterfitting. The holster was legally recreated. Words matter

While I think you are correct in your description of counterfeiting an item that is protected by Trademarks or Copyrights. I think Fraud would be the proper word it you make an item and try to pass it off a genuine product but it is only a copy. I might be wrong since I am not a lawyer or prosecutor.

 

[richardw]

While I think you are correct in your description of counterfeiting an item that is protected by Trademarks or Copyrights I think Fraud would be the proper word it you make an item and try to pass it off a genuine product but it is only a copy. I might be wrong since I am not a lawyer or prosecutor.

I think you are correct. Attempting to pass off a reproduction as an original is fraud.

 

[rednichols]

Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.

* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.

I wondered when I made up my title. My use of the word 'counterfeit' was not intended as a shot at those of you that copy others' innovations (although this is). I chose the word because 'copying' is an inaccurate process; so is 'cloning'; whereas if one wanted to accurately reproduce (everyone claims to do this, not least El Paso Saddlery) a late-model Brill, one would have to know all these details to even begin to fool an expert. Not that anyone would admit to trying to fool an expert; though to an amateur they'd be happy to say that they could. One would be amazed at the b.s. I've had pitched at me by makers when they don't know who I am (notably the current chap at Alessi -- face to face!).

Not least, too, that the "accurate reproducer" (happier word?) would have to know (a) that there were two eras AND (b) the difference in their construction.

So: my post and my word was not intended as a 'shot' at anyone. But the reaction suggests that 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. That said, I really like your blend of Brill and Safariland (a Brilland? A Safari-Brill? I call mine a Brill-Persons because it looks like a Brill but is fitted out internally to behave like a Threepersons).

But, again, some are being too sensitive and it appears that I've hit a sore spot. My post was only to revel in the details that make up a real Brill of two different eras. I think, just for fun, I won't post up the second series and see if the experts can work it out on their own .

And: everyone admits to copying 'the greats' because these men (there are no women) are dead and can't object. But no one admits to copying the living giants because they can sue; instead they claim they were 'inspired' and 'made improvements' aka minor changes. This was the essence of my now-closed lawsuit against the current Milt Sparks company. Make up your own damned designs, is my motto . See, now one of MY sore spots has been hit.

 

[rednichols]

I think you are correct. Attempting to pass off a reproduction as an original is fraud.

Say, I meant to mention 'product configuration trademarks'. I protect all my designs in this way. To grasp what a configuration trademark is, think of the 1911. If Colt had employed this protection (too bloody late now) there would be no Ruger or S&W clones of the 1911. I'd explain these trademarks but it might hit a nerve in someone; so y'all can look it up on, say, Wikipedia.

All intellectual property is truly protectable in only two ways, at least in USA (and again, my post about Brill was not intended to go that direction; but since it's been mentioned . . .) because every copyist will protest (that's obvious, I saw it once in '54, looks just like a girl's barette, etc.) and it all devolves to money.

Safariland's power in this regard, and Bianchi's back in the day, emanated from more than having a patent that might or might not be relevant; it was from having the market power to intimidate and overwhelm a small player. Conversely, Roy Baker had a patent but was powerless to enforce it: the market designed around it while not having to fight off expensive lawsuits.

 

[clang444]

I'm sorry but when i hear "brill" all i can think is "a little dab will do yah".

 

[keith44spl]

I wondered when I made up my title. My use of the word 'counterfeit' was not intended as a shot at those of you that copy others' innovations (although this is). I chose the word because 'copying' is an inaccurate process; so is 'cloning'; whereas if one wanted to accurately reproduce (everyone claims to do this, not least El Paso Saddlery) a late-model Brill, one would have to know all these details to even begin to fool an expert. Not that anyone would admit to trying to fool an expert; though to an amateur they'd be happy to say that they could. One would be amazed at the b.s. I've had pitched at me by makers when they don't know who I am (notably the current chap at Alessi -- face to face!).

Not least, too, that the "accurate reproducer" (happier word?) would have to know (a) that there were two eras AND (b) the difference in their construction.

So: my post and my word was not intended as a 'shot' at anyone. But the reaction suggests that 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. That said, I really like your blend of Brill and Safariland (a Brilland? A Safari-Brill? I call mine a Brill-Persons because it looks like a Brill but is fitted out internally to behave like a Threepersons).

But, again, some are being too sensitive and it appears that I've hit a sore spot. My post was only to revel in the details that make up a real Brill of two different eras. I think, just for fun, I won't post up the second series and see if the experts can work it out on their own .

And: everyone admits to copying 'the greats' because these men (there are no women) are dead and can't object. But no one admits to copying the living giants because they can sue; instead they claim they were 'inspired' and 'made improvements' aka minor changes. This was the essence of my now-closed lawsuit against the current Milt Sparks company. Make up your own damned designs, is my motto . See, now one of MY sore spots has been hit.

My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.

.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.

 

[clang444]

My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.

.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.

Very nice. I'd take one of them over a Brill any day.

 

[rednichols]

My design, I first built thirty or so years ago, for my own personal comfort.
Carrying a heavy revolver or full size 1911 Colt pistol, one needs it to ride right.
Seated in a vehicle or at a desk, it's just doesn't need to sore ya up.
This design carries higher and the dwell is tighter than the ol threepersons design.
I found the TP allows the pistol butt to swing away from the belt...allowing the handgun
to bang on ever gate post or door jam around.

Also, I have found that for revolvers, the slimmer front edge,
achieved by the sewn edge, as opposed to a fold over,
made for better concealment under a jacket.
Personally, I just like the round closed toe.

The garter or cuff is a convenient means of controlling the belt tunnel width.

But, when ya really look at it.......There is really nothing new under the sun.

The backside of the above pictured holster, has a belt loop slot.
So again, nothing new.

.

I don't know anything about any law suits, or any such goings on.

Hell fire, it's all jest a lit'l leather cobbling anyhows.

.

We could easily have a vigorous discussion about all of that but I'd rather not! I'll just be glad to get back to how a Brill copy can be made better (mine is neither authentic or for sale.)

 

[keith44spl]

We could easily have a vigorous discussion about all of that but I'd rather not! I'll just be glad to get back to how a Brill copy can be made better (mine is neither authentic or for sale.)

Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave

 

[crazyphil]

Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave

I am fortunate enough to have one coming. I will post photos
when it gets here. You 2 guys are both two of the best living
leather artists. I have specimens of both your endeavors, and
they are top notch.

 

[rednichols]

Red,

Here's the thing.........Who would want to counterfeit Brill?

I'd like to see a photo of your holster(s)..........I really would.

All My Best,
Dave

Dave, I only chose the title for reasons of whimsy. It was meant to result in two posts, to point out the differences between early and late Brills; and how there are never any variants of even the smallest nature in the originals within those eras. This allows us to date them in an era when our resource material misdirects us into thinking that August began making the Brill holster in the 19th century. Which he didn't; it's very likely that he personally never made any of them at all. And that led to the erroneous claim in a major auction of Butch Cassidy's Colt SAA, that the Brill with it belonged to Butch; which it couldn't have.

That is the historical point. The contemporary point was that modern copies are superficial and there is a lot of science in the originals that is left out of them. Brills are not a 'style' so much as an artefact. All good fun.

 

[keith44spl]

Red,
I've been ponderin' this here Brill design and thinkin on
a few improvement to the original design for a short spell now.

From a basic engineering stand point, what with modern adhesives and
nylon threads and better quality tanned leathers to choose from, an
improved version would be interesting.

I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.
So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave

 

[Watchdog]

I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.

So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave

I, for one, will look forward to seeing it! Been an admirer of your work since I joined this forum.

 

[rednichols]

Red,
I've been ponderin' this here Brill design and thinkin on
a few improvement to the original design for a short spell now.

From a basic engineering stand point, what with modern adhesives and
nylon threads and better quality tanned leathers to choose from, an
improved version would be interesting.

I have a custom N frame 44 Special in the works, and it'll need a custom holster.
So, I guess I'd cobble myself up a brand new fancy 'Brill' jest for sport.

All My Best,
Dave

You know there will a test, right? 1-5 gold stars and only 5 stars will be a passing grade .