How would you handle this situation?

I expect to take some flak on this thought: Is there not some danger in "overtraining", obsessing on what if`s etc? By that I mean if you habitualy train, think out senerios, shoot up a mountain of ammo and money, is there some chance you are "overprimed" and when some gray fringe of a situation oppertunes it`self you open the ball when you shouldnt, or more seasoned experianced heads would defuse the situation without a gunfight and all the attendent aftermath of cause and effect?
I have been there and done just that.
 
feralmerril said:
I expect to take some flak on this thought: Is there not some danger in "overtraining", obsessing on what if`s etc? By that I mean if you habitualy train, think out senerios, shoot up a mountain of ammo and money, is there some chance you are "overprimed" and when some gray fringe of a situation oppertunes it`self you open the ball when you shouldnt, or more seasoned experianced heads would defuse the situation without a gunfight and all the attendent aftermath of cause and effect?
I have been there and done just that.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but I respectfully must disagree. I suppose compared to some I might fit the "overtrained" description, but I don't believe there is such a thing when quality training is involved. I don't run what if scenarios, but I train to shoot from cover/concealment, weak hand, shoot while moving, practice reloads under stress etc etc. I also train myself to be aware of my surroundings without looking like the guy constantly scanning the crowd.

In my opinion, those that escalate a situation when it could be defused are usually the undertrained rather than the over, then again, attempting to defuse a situation that is beyond defusing can get you killed too. Again, usually brought on by the undertrained.

Clint Smith once said, "The best example of good gun training is to never get in a gunfight." Most people's situational awareness sucks, and that is what leads them into bad situations to begin with.

Avoidance is key, but there are times when things play out that are beyond our control or avoidance, and we must react accordingly with the proper actions, no two situations will ever be the same, and there is no across the board right way to respond, every situation and problem we face will be unique, and our response should be appropriate. Most will require us to simply walk away, but occasionaly more is required.
 
The assumption here is that the gunman has to obey the same rules everyone does so even though you may bring your gun everywhere there are certain buildings that it is illegal to bring your gun into and in that case you would be at the gunman's mercy. Also people forget whether you forget to take the gun or load it.
 
Gun disarmment is effect if you are close to the person but not if they are at sufficient distance like 15 feet.
 
Mr. Bittenbinder studied the victims and the cases of over 2000 crimes and he came up with a self defense strategm based upon the interviews and those previous crimes. The Fort Collins Police Department did the study on whether a person shot at could be hit. I wanted to find out your source for the information that there is something wrong with the advice from the Chicago PD. Personally I can say anything but it doesn't mean it is true and my argument falters further when I have no sources or evidence.
 
It depends where you are. If the criminal wants to not be caught shooting after a victim isn't the first thing he will do. There are no perfect answers but your chances are better running than go to a second location.
If a police officer trained in shooting his weapon can't hit a moving target why is it thought that the criminal is going to be a lot more proficient with a weapon than a police officer. Of course it is possible but not very likely.
 
sirrduke2010 said:
Mr. Bittenbinder studied the victims and the cases of over 2000 crimes and he came up with a self defense strategm based upon the interviews and those previous crimes. The Fort Collins Police Department did the study on whether a person shot at could be hit. I wanted to find out your source for the information that there is something wrong with the advice from the Chicago PD. Personally I can say anything but it doesn't mean it is true and my argument falters further when I have no sources or evidence.
Click to expand...

check out that departments past public safety announcements ... you'll find some real winners in there.
as for my protest about an inability to hit a running target with a pistol ... you can try this yourself.
Sporting clays is a game shot with shotguns at Mostly" airborne targets .. except for one called the rabbit. The rabbit is rolled along the ground. We changed the game up a bit for the rabbit target. we take that one with pistols and rifles so as to force a transition between arms...
last time out, I had a new shooter with a M&P 40 who had less than 200 rounds throu it, his first sidearm ... if he, a total greenhorn, can smoke that 4" rabbit target bouncing on the turf well over half the time, ANYONE can ... the 3% claim cant even hold up to a 18 year old space cadet rookie.
have yourself some fun poking holes in the 3% claim for yourself;)
 
It's easy to say fight or attack them but in reality the situation is going to be different it they tower over you and have their gun pointed at you in a very solid manner. You will simply get your damn brains blown out. On the other hand whether I fight, fall on the ground and start convulsing or give them my wallet, it's all going to happen RIGHT THERE. No walking around back, no gathering everyone in the back room or the freezer cooler like some store robberies. Bottom line DONT leave home without it. And if you are at an ATM one of your hands should be on the gun with the safety off and finger out of the guard but damned ready. I also pump my gas in a bad neighborhood with my gun in my hand. And I'm not worried too much if someone with a sharp eye realizes I have a gun. I was doing this long before I got a carry permit. Once I was almost robbed and I honestly think the robber read my eyes. He was about to advance on me and my wife and the look I gave him with my semi-auto in my hand, in coat pocket must have sent a strong message. I almost stared a hole through his dumb ***.
 
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Feral, I practiced this with my wife (she's 4'11 and I'm 6'3). She beat me silly with the training gun! Just kidding. Thanks for the extra details. Think I will get my brother to practice with me. My wife would think the whole exercise to be silly.

Take care.

Out
West
 
Overtraining in exercise is bad because it can cause injury but over training in preparation to use your weapon is extremely helpful because when you are in the moment of a physical threat you aren't going to be able to think straight so the action is automatic which doesn't require very much thinking. You do have the best chance of reacting effectively and the action is practiced. The fight or flight response to the stress of a physical threat can make it difficult to think, react, and respond effectively if your response isn't automatic.
 
I wanted to say a caution about showing your weapon to somebody. I know in the states I have lived in see it as a crime, unless there is a physical threat, and it is called "brandishing a weapon."
 
If one wants to practice hitting moving targets, there is something muchy more dififcult.

A rolling object will pretty much stay in the same path so it's possible to get a bead on it.

Instead, get a windy day and some small balloons. Fill them with air and tie the end off. Toss them on the ground and let the wind take them a few feet away. They will bounce, change directions and move in unusual ways. The more windy it is, the more fun you will have.
 
Armed Babysitter said:
Your scenario is flawed. My carry gun doesn't get "forgotten" at home.
Click to expand...

Many people do not forget their gun, they just do not take it on that trip.

Going to the corner store, run to the post office two blocks away or where ever, you will often leave the gun at home. I tick off many of those I put behind bars that would love to harm my beautiful body. I carry virtually all the time but there are times where I am only going to be gone for a few minutes and will leave it at home. It could be that on one of those trips is when I will run into one that I put away.

Nobody carries all the time.
 
M29since14 said:
This topic came up here not too long ago. I clicked this one thinking maybe I would see something new. :rolleyes:

I believe in the earlier thread a law enforcement guru of some sort came along with some pretty convincing numbers that when a punk proposes to take you elsewhere he generally plans to kill you. Since his advice and numbers agreed with my thinking, I liked his answer. :)

I believe Xfuzz has the "winnah."
Click to expand...
Hello,

You made a comment that the topic was brought up before but I was looking for this but couldn't find it. Could you please give me the previous discussion? Thank you.
 
If I forgot my concealed weapon, hopefully I remembered by Sabre spray and my collapsable baton. Either way, I will not go peacefully.
 
Supposing, just supposing that I had a chili powered brain fart and left my faithful sidekick at home, then I would fight the *** with everything I had. How many victims who were later found deceased got in the car and went somewhere with their murderer because they thought he would show mercy? Even the liberal "Don't struggle and give him what he wants" part of some in LE (those in front of the camera, the rest will tell you to fight until someone isn't breathing) will tell you not to get in the car with the guy.
 
Sadly, many of us do not have the luxury of being able to carry while on the job. My company forbids it and I drive a company F-150 to a number of remote sites. I am not even allowed to have pepper-spray. A couple of my telecom sites are in not-so-good areas and I wonder if I could hold the company liable if I am attacked and severely beaten as I am required to go into dangerous areas with no real means of protecting myself. (I KNOW the answer is probably "no" since I knew the company policy when I signed on)

However I DO carry a S&W tactical pen. Nothing against that in the employee handbook, and though I would much rather have my 642 in my pocket, it can be a pretty good means of getting someone's attention (and giving me a few precious moments of escape time).

I am reading up on the proper method(s) of employing the such a pen and in what situations it can be used. More importantly, as has been stated here, situational awareness is of utmost importance, especially when one is not able to carry. Even when I do carry pepper spray and I see some undesirables coming my way, I check the wind direction quickly and think out where I want to position myself in the even I have to use it. Getting a face full of C/S gas is the last thing you want when defending yourself.

I would NOT go anywhere with the BG, though. There is only one reason he would be taking me there (and its not to buy me dinner)
 
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I'd tell him the second location has to be a city owned park in Chattanooga. Since the city has made them a Gun Free Zone he couldn't take his.
 
Walking back to your car after exiting a courthouse or airport are two prime examples.
Click to expand...

Unless you happen to live in a state (like Washington) where you can be armed as you exit those places. I don't fly so the only time I am at the airport is in non-secure areas and I open carry there. Courthouse, here they have to have a lockbox for you to secure your weapon in. I like that, usually courthouses aren't in the upscale neighborhoods. ;)

bob
 
I didn't fully read all of the posts in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have some footage where the shooters(2) were using simunitions and the good guy (GG) tried to flee from a bad guy (BG) who already had his gun drawn. The BG was played by a championship shooter so he wasn't any slouch.

The BG was right handed so that was the hand holding the gun and every time the good guy fled to the BG's right the BG was able to hit him. When the GG fled to the BG's left things changed dramatically.

It seemed that the BG in this scenario was better able to index his shot at a moving target if he didn't have to do so by crossing his gun arm in front of, or across his body. In fact during one attempt the GG was not only able to flee without getting hit he was also able to draw his weapon and get a hit on the BG firing from behind nearby cover, in this case a building support pillar.

Because of this I plan, if at all possible, to flee left (my left) for a left handed BG and right (my right) for a rightie.
At least it's worth a try.......:cool:
 
oldman45 said:
Many people do not forget their gun, they just do not take it on that trip.

Going to the corner store, run to the post office two blocks away or where ever, you will often leave the gun at home. I tick off many of those I put behind bars that would love to harm my beautiful body. I carry virtually all the time but there are times where I am only going to be gone for a few minutes and will leave it at home. It could be that on one of those trips is when I will run into one that I put away.

Nobody carries all the time.
Click to expand...

ThirtyAcres said:
Amen.

Walking back to your car after exiting a courthouse or airport are two prime examples.
Click to expand...

Color me paranoid if you wish, but I don't leave my house unarmed. I too have put scumbags behind bars who would like to catch me unarmed and unprepared. When I leave the courthouse, I'm armed. I take it inside, secure it in the provided lockbox, and rearm upon leaving the courthouse. I also carry into the airport when picking up family and what not. It's perfectly legal here for any carry permit holder to do so in the unsecured areas, not just for LEO's.
 
I would base my actions on the totality of the circumstances as I found them at the time. Incidents like this are unique. God gave you the ability to reason. Use it. To "bench race" kidnapping and robbery scenarios on the internet and come up with a one-size fits all "solution" is what will get you killed. Do what you need to do at the time and under the circumstances. You won't know what that is until the time comes. If you can't think on your feet and have to rely on: "this is what you do every single time X happens", you probably shouldn't carry a gun.
 
my gun doesn't get "forgotten" but for arguments sake lets say it did. fists would fly, if im going down im going down fighting.
 
Ill contribute, Very easy to describe
Jekyll to Hyde, A wolf in sheeps clothing
 
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