We all know how when LEOs storm someone's house on a no knock warrant the instant the battering ram hits the door they verbally identify themselves as LEOs. Obviously you quickly relenquish your weapon or leave it in the nightstand to avoid being instantly perforated. What if one or more home invaders falsely identified themselves as LEOs upon entering to throw you off your defense plan? By the time you realize they're not LEOs if they haven't killed you already, how would you regain your defensive position?
How would you survive this scenario?
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sipowicz
Member
Once I know they aren't LEO I would yell "criminal" so they think I am one of them...then while we are all planning a new home invasion together, I would grab my gun and say, "gotcha."
Dan Cash
Member
Get a dog that alerts at the drop of a hat. Little yappy mutts are the best. Dog alerts, heal thy self and vent the bastards as they come through the door. Enough gun and enough accuracy and you might live through it.
38-44HD45
Absent Comrade
We do? Not always.
This complicated thinking you put forward obviously was too difficult for our Supreme Court to grasp, or else they don't care about people like us. Anyone can holler "Police" as they go about their business, and of course who is likely to hear such hollering amidst the noise of someone breaking down your door anyway? 
I must rant! These searches have no place in a society where a big percentage of home owners keep guns for protection. Police have always been able to forcibly enter dwellings under what they believe to be exigent circumstances. "Rescues" are one thing. But anything more puts the citizen in too much danger.
What has happened to the doctrine that it is better to let many guilty persons escape justice than it is to subject a single innocent person to the brutality of injustice?
But anyway, the ability to correct the situation, once it has already hopelessly deteriorated, would seem slim. It's probably only possible if the people making the entry are such fumble bums that they become distracted and you can regain the upper hand. This is a sorry hope to stake one's life on, but it is reality. Thanks, Supreme Court!
If you're really concerned about this, you might install a second, hardened door inside your home (call it an "arctic entrance"
), so that entry through it too has to be gained before "the police" can get to you. Ideally, that would give you a little more time to assess the situation, and time would definitely help. I have considered this in my own home, but the annoyance factor in everyday living is not inconsiderable.
I must rant! These searches have no place in a society where a big percentage of home owners keep guns for protection. Police have always been able to forcibly enter dwellings under what they believe to be exigent circumstances. "Rescues" are one thing. But anything more puts the citizen in too much danger.
What has happened to the doctrine that it is better to let many guilty persons escape justice than it is to subject a single innocent person to the brutality of injustice?
But anyway, the ability to correct the situation, once it has already hopelessly deteriorated, would seem slim. It's probably only possible if the people making the entry are such fumble bums that they become distracted and you can regain the upper hand. This is a sorry hope to stake one's life on, but it is reality. Thanks, Supreme Court!
If you're really concerned about this, you might install a second, hardened door inside your home (call it an "arctic entrance"
), so that entry through it too has to be gained before "the police" can get to you. Ideally, that would give you a little more time to assess the situation, and time would definitely help. I have considered this in my own home, but the annoyance factor in everyday living is not inconsiderable.
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oldRoger
US Veteran
These searches have no place in a society where a big percentage of home owners keep guns for protection.
I would go further; this type of search has no place in any society governed by the rule of law. I think we are very lucky that we have not had more very serious incidences.
I can only hope that the LE community is very concerned about the potential repercussions. Some no-knock LE group is going to break down the door of some elderly grey haired pillar of the community and get themselves killed. Yes, they will win in the end, but the ensuing uproar is going to end in this sort of thing being tightly restricted.
We can only hope that when the incident happens it will have minimum collateral damage.
I would go further; this type of search has no place in any society governed by the rule of law. I think we are very lucky that we have not had more very serious incidences.
I can only hope that the LE community is very concerned about the potential repercussions. Some no-knock LE group is going to break down the door of some elderly grey haired pillar of the community and get themselves killed. Yes, they will win in the end, but the ensuing uproar is going to end in this sort of thing being tightly restricted.
We can only hope that when the incident happens it will have minimum collateral damage.
It's not only searches. A friend of mine never received a letter to appear because the court mailed it to the wrong address and LE busted his door down in the middle of the night and pulled him out of bed. Just knowing this happens creates quite a dilema. If I'm in bed and someone's in my livingroom identifying themselves as LE my first thought would NOT be to start shooting or come out of the room armed. A barking dog can't tell me if they're lying. I wouldn't want to shoot an officer who might simply have been given the wrong address nor would I want to get shot by a criminal who threw me off by yelling "OPD" as he entered. I sleep with the bedroom door open but I guess if I was really worried about it I'd go with a deadbolted steel bedroom door. I don't think I could sleep in bulletproof jammies..lol..I was just wondering if anyone else has thought about the senario.
I don't think this is all that likely - sure, it could happen. Typically in a 'bust down the door' scenario, whether they're cops or robbers, it's all going to happen pretty fast and if you didn't get some advanced warning (i.e., dog barking, saw them outside, etc.), you are likely to be SOL. (unless you had your trusty J frame BUG in your pocket!)
This scenario is more likely to happen with bounty hunters. If they are bounty hunters, they got the wrong house and they get shot first. No questions.
The key is to make it difficult for them to get in. I do building/physical security for a living. 75% of the houses I go to are inadequately protected but the customer thinks they are. Almost all of the deadbolts sold by home centers are crap. Not strong enough and poorly constructed.
People say that "if they want to get in they will" or "locks are just to keep people honest". That may be true in some cases but over all it's simply not true. If a home owner is willing to spend the money, I can make it very difficult for anyone to get in. They might get in eventually. But the point is, it will take them significantly longer allowing you plenty of time to arm yourself and be ready. Eliminating the element of surprise and putting surprise on your side is everything. It's a huge advantage.
If you prepare properly, home invasion what if scenarios are almost not an issue.
Also, if cops bust down my door they will be met with an equal action until they can prove to me without a doubt that they are law enforcement. I respect them and apprecaite what they do. But when me and my family are concerned, I don't take chances.
The key is to make it difficult for them to get in. I do building/physical security for a living. 75% of the houses I go to are inadequately protected but the customer thinks they are. Almost all of the deadbolts sold by home centers are crap. Not strong enough and poorly constructed.
People say that "if they want to get in they will" or "locks are just to keep people honest". That may be true in some cases but over all it's simply not true. If a home owner is willing to spend the money, I can make it very difficult for anyone to get in. They might get in eventually. But the point is, it will take them significantly longer allowing you plenty of time to arm yourself and be ready. Eliminating the element of surprise and putting surprise on your side is everything. It's a huge advantage.
If you prepare properly, home invasion what if scenarios are almost not an issue.
Also, if cops bust down my door they will be met with an equal action until they can prove to me without a doubt that they are law enforcement. I respect them and apprecaite what they do. But when me and my family are concerned, I don't take chances.
Crazy K38
Member
ummm if they bust down my door then they are at the mercy of my pit bull, if they make it past her then they are truly lucky and I am not sure if police would break down a door with a 120 lb pit bull trying to eat them PLUS I know I havn't given a reason for police to break down my door and I see no flashing lights I am grabbing my gun and taking my chances behind my deadbolted bedroom door they want in show me some ID
Hi:
Wire house with explosives. When door is kicked in, push button and house and part of neighborhood is destroyed.
WAIT, WAIT!! I THINK I NEED A DIFFERENT PLAN!
Jimmy
Wire house with explosives. When door is kicked in, push button and house and part of neighborhood is destroyed.
WAIT, WAIT!! I THINK I NEED A DIFFERENT PLAN!
Jimmy
Jimmy,
Your plan is close. I have been looking for Claymore's, then it is just half your house and it will wake you up incase the BG in the car wants some too.
Claymore's are getting pretty hard to find on-line, maybe Cheaper Than Dirt?
Good question. However unlikely, it is worth considering. The more I think of home defense the more non-lethal methods seem to make sense. Unfortunately that approach is way more complicated and expensive than just buying a 12 gauge which is my current first line of defense.
I don't feel any safer than someone living out in the middle of nowhere must have felt 200 years ago. I doesn't matter how many LE the community hires. The odds of them being where I need them to be when I need them is maybe one in a million at best. The impact of society infringing on my ability to act in my own best interest seems disproportionately high.
Just my $.02
I don't feel any safer than someone living out in the middle of nowhere must have felt 200 years ago. I doesn't matter how many LE the community hires. The odds of them being where I need them to be when I need them is maybe one in a million at best. The impact of society infringing on my ability to act in my own best interest seems disproportionately high.
Just my $.02
I bet it happens a lot more than we know. We hear about home invasions all the time when there are no surviving victims to tell us what happened. I recently helped a friend pick out his first gun and on the way back we were discussing home defense strategies. He looked at me and said "If I wanted to get to someone in their house when they were sleeping I would yell POLICE right after busting through the door so their first reaction wouldn't be to start shooting." That's what got me thinking about this. It's quite likely a pretty typical MO for that type of assault. There wouldn't be flashing blues with a no knock warrant. That would defeat the purpose. Just like with any well planned home invasion, when you hear a noise they're already in the house. A big dog is great protection from an unarmed attacker but BANG, YELP, that line of defense is gone. No matter how much you spend on a deadbolt it's only as secure as the door, the jamb,the hinges and the frame it's mounted to. Sure it's far more likely to be a criminal attack than LE but if you're awakened by a loud noise and you hear "FREEZE! POLICE!" How would you know? I guess if you're financially privileged enough to live in a fortress you might even have bullet proof jammies....lol. I'm just a renter caught in the economic crunch with not much distance between the front door and the bedroom door. If it happened to me I'd only have about a half a second to decide whether or not to start slinging lead.
amanda66
Member
I have to ask... why would you be worried about LE breaking down your door in the first place?!?!? If someone came through my door even if they yell such and such PD... I'm going to come out with my gun. IF... and big IF there, it is LE then I'm S.O.L and they'd better be wearing vests! I know that they have no reason to be in my home... and yes I'm a shoot first, ask questions later type of gal... cause if they have the wrong address... that's their fault... and trust me... my PD here knows me well, due to having to deal with me after my house was broken into and I handed them their case on a silver platter and they did nothing! If it isn't LE... then I will be defending my Home and Son... that's my 2 cents
Like any other law abiding citizen I'm not worried about LE breaking down my door, though they have come knocking more than a few times looking for various people who's last known address was this house so I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility but this is strictly a ponderence of anyone's views on a particular scenario not a compilation of personal fears.
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amanda66
Member
Like any other law abiding citizen I'm not worried about LE breaking down my door, though they have come knocking more than a few times looking for various people who's last known address was this house so I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility but this is strictly a ponderence of anyone's views on a particular scenario not a compilation of personal fears.
I've had that happen before as well... there is a big difference from LEO knocking on my door because of a previous tenant and them breaking down my door to do a search or whatever possible reason they could be breaking down my door... so I guess I still would have to say my answer to your scenario is... I'd still question WHY LE would be breaking down my door... and would answer that knock with gun in hand... ready to shoot first... and ask questions later... even if they have a warrant... and it's NOT for me... they are still breaking into MY home... which I have every right to defend...
Crazy K38
Member
+1 that is what I was getting at
