Identifying this .357, Story behind the revolver
- Thread starter purkle
- Start date
ajpelz
Member
Wonderful story! I would tend to think that the gun was renumbered according to regulation (why would it be renumbered otherwise) or 798 IS the original serial number (why would someone take off part of a serial and leave 3 digits???)
Either way, I would enjoy the heck out of it, and take it to the range on special occasions. Obviously it was no safe queen!
Thanks for sharing such a special story.
Either way, I would enjoy the heck out of it, and take it to the range on special occasions. Obviously it was no safe queen!
Thanks for sharing such a special story.
Last edited:
Great story and interesting thread for sure.
Two thoughts-
1) Why couldn't the number on the back of the crane be different from any other number on the gun, since it is a reworked 1917,38/44 etc. If the cylinder was swapped, why couldn't/wouldn't the crane and yoke be swapped at the same time, thereby giving the gun a couple of differnt numbers.
2)The reason I asked the first question is in part due to my second point. If the gun was altered in Alaska before it was a state, would it have still been subject to the same laws as one built in the contiguous 48 at that time? I realize that it was a US territory, but did the exact same laws apply then as they do now that it is a state? Back in the 30's, 40's, and even the 50's, Alaska was a pretty remote place with very few means of communication with the outside like there are today. I know when I lived there, many considered any outside influence a nuisance, and irrelevant to what went on up there.
Just curious.
Two thoughts-
1) Why couldn't the number on the back of the crane be different from any other number on the gun, since it is a reworked 1917,38/44 etc. If the cylinder was swapped, why couldn't/wouldn't the crane and yoke be swapped at the same time, thereby giving the gun a couple of differnt numbers.
2)The reason I asked the first question is in part due to my second point. If the gun was altered in Alaska before it was a state, would it have still been subject to the same laws as one built in the contiguous 48 at that time? I realize that it was a US territory, but did the exact same laws apply then as they do now that it is a state? Back in the 30's, 40's, and even the 50's, Alaska was a pretty remote place with very few means of communication with the outside like there are today. I know when I lived there, many considered any outside influence a nuisance, and irrelevant to what went on up there.
Just curious.
bamabiker
Member
Congrats for owning a wonderful piece of your family's history. It sounds like your grandmother was one heck of a woman. I've said it before on here and I'll say it again, I would love to own a gun from one of my relatives and as far as I know none of them have a history like your's. You said in one of your ealier post that you are going to make a presentation of your grandmother and her gun for family events. That sounds like a great idea and if it were me I would be getting as much info as posible about her. There may be newspaper and magazine articles, etc. about her. Find them and preserve them to be passed on to family members. Again, congrats.
Allen-frame
Member
Purkle,
Hey Purkle, Allen frame here, we met early this morning.
Next thing, after your gun friend checks it out, and makes sure the bore and chambers are clear and the timing is acceptable, you need to shoot it.
Find yourself a box or two of 38 wadcutters or some such 38 caliber target ammunition, and go to the range with a friend or two and shoot the gun.
I'm sure your grandma would like you to have a good time shooting with your friends.
If the gun is not in shooting order, for whatever reason, hopefully it can be made right by a decent gunsmith.
For, afterall ,a gun that does not shoot, is nothing but a fancy paperweight.
Take care Purkle ,,regards ,Allen Frame
Hey Purkle, Allen frame here, we met early this morning.
Next thing, after your gun friend checks it out, and makes sure the bore and chambers are clear and the timing is acceptable, you need to shoot it.
Find yourself a box or two of 38 wadcutters or some such 38 caliber target ammunition, and go to the range with a friend or two and shoot the gun.
I'm sure your grandma would like you to have a good time shooting with your friends.
If the gun is not in shooting order, for whatever reason, hopefully it can be made right by a decent gunsmith.
For, afterall ,a gun that does not shoot, is nothing but a fancy paperweight.
Take care Purkle ,,regards ,Allen Frame
handejector
Staff member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 26,134
- Reaction score
- 47,040
I believe the orig number could well be 798.
I have only been telling purkle how to possibly confirm this by finding the number of the frame by finding it on the yoke, since we know the yoke has a MATCHING assembly number, per what purkle has said.
Here is my suggestion-
Type out the history you know of Nana. You mentioned a 'presentation' for the family earlier, and this would serve for that also.
Be detailed and specific in this document, whether you want to give all that data in the presentation or not. Make it as complete as possible.
Start it in the first person, as in "My Grandmother was...". Then, if you fade into third person, you are linked to the story with more credence, because-------
Then, you will trot down to your local notary, and have your signature ON EACH PAGE notarized.
Voila- the story of Nana for all time.
Add copies of all pics you have that even slightly interesting. Gently label them on the back with all known data, like dates. Pics of Nana with the gun, airplanes, hunters and/or dead Kodiaks would be great.
If I can be of any service helping you with the gun, feel free to email me pics. It would help me greatly to have a clear pic of the butt, back of cyl, assembly numbers on yoke and frame, and rear surface of yoke after removing from the gun and cleaning gently(where the yoke should be serial numbered). I can probably tell you what you need to know.
I have only been telling purkle how to possibly confirm this by finding the number of the frame by finding it on the yoke, since we know the yoke has a MATCHING assembly number, per what purkle has said.
Here is my suggestion-
Type out the history you know of Nana. You mentioned a 'presentation' for the family earlier, and this would serve for that also.
Be detailed and specific in this document, whether you want to give all that data in the presentation or not. Make it as complete as possible.
Start it in the first person, as in "My Grandmother was...". Then, if you fade into third person, you are linked to the story with more credence, because-------
Then, you will trot down to your local notary, and have your signature ON EACH PAGE notarized.
Voila- the story of Nana for all time.
Add copies of all pics you have that even slightly interesting. Gently label them on the back with all known data, like dates. Pics of Nana with the gun, airplanes, hunters and/or dead Kodiaks would be great.
If I can be of any service helping you with the gun, feel free to email me pics. It would help me greatly to have a clear pic of the butt, back of cyl, assembly numbers on yoke and frame, and rear surface of yoke after removing from the gun and cleaning gently(where the yoke should be serial numbered). I can probably tell you what you need to know.
Purkle-
You should take Lee up on his offer. He knows as much about these old guns as anyone, and probably more.
You also said that you have been getting info from The Firing Line. There are some really knowledgeable guys over there, and I am very familiar with most of them. There are also some guys over there that are self proclaimed experts, and do not care for this forum, as they consider us a bunch of Smith snobs that can never find fault with our beloved S&W guns. I have witnessed them try to steer people away from anything to do with this site or S&W's, and purposely mislead new members with bad info about Smiths. I am only telling you this because it's easy to be misinformed when bouncing back and forth between forums, especially if you get info here then ask them over there, and happen to get one of the "experts" I mentioned before. Stick with someone like Lee, or others here who really are experts on these old guns. You'll get it all sorted out, and we can share in your moment with you. Thank you for that.
Your nana sounds to me like the typical woman I met while living there (albeit with a unique job for her day!). Very self sufficient ladies. I was impressed by them. My own grandmother was a frontier kind a gal. She wore her old Colt SAA .45 everywhere, and actually rode a horse for transportation. That was back at the turn of the last century. I think she and your nana would have gotten along very nicely had they been able to meet.
You should take Lee up on his offer. He knows as much about these old guns as anyone, and probably more.
You also said that you have been getting info from The Firing Line. There are some really knowledgeable guys over there, and I am very familiar with most of them. There are also some guys over there that are self proclaimed experts, and do not care for this forum, as they consider us a bunch of Smith snobs that can never find fault with our beloved S&W guns. I have witnessed them try to steer people away from anything to do with this site or S&W's, and purposely mislead new members with bad info about Smiths. I am only telling you this because it's easy to be misinformed when bouncing back and forth between forums, especially if you get info here then ask them over there, and happen to get one of the "experts" I mentioned before. Stick with someone like Lee, or others here who really are experts on these old guns. You'll get it all sorted out, and we can share in your moment with you. Thank you for that.
Your nana sounds to me like the typical woman I met while living there (albeit with a unique job for her day!). Very self sufficient ladies. I was impressed by them. My own grandmother was a frontier kind a gal. She wore her old Colt SAA .45 everywhere, and actually rode a horse for transportation. That was back at the turn of the last century. I think she and your nana would have gotten along very nicely had they been able to meet.
Last edited:
ElToro
Member
your grandma sounds like a real cool lady.
my grandma's sister ( my aunt Alice) was the same way. in '34 she was on duty as a nurse in Cook county general hospital when they brought Dillinger in on a platter.
then she moved to Alaska with her husband as he was doing some construction work during teh war and postwar in the aleutians. since she was a nurse, she was allowed to come along. she was often the only medical person for many miles. then in the 50s and 60s they hd a commerical fishing boat out of Juneau. she lived by herself on Douglas Island for about 30 years after her husband died.
your piece is a complete Franken-gun, almost worthelss to any collector.
if i was you, it would be priceless and should never leave the family. follow Lee's advice about documenting it with as much family info and photos of the gun in action as possible
cool grips. are they real stag ?
my grandma's sister ( my aunt Alice) was the same way. in '34 she was on duty as a nurse in Cook county general hospital when they brought Dillinger in on a platter.
then she moved to Alaska with her husband as he was doing some construction work during teh war and postwar in the aleutians. since she was a nurse, she was allowed to come along. she was often the only medical person for many miles. then in the 50s and 60s they hd a commerical fishing boat out of Juneau. she lived by herself on Douglas Island for about 30 years after her husband died.
your piece is a complete Franken-gun, almost worthelss to any collector.
if i was you, it would be priceless and should never leave the family. follow Lee's advice about documenting it with as much family info and photos of the gun in action as possible
cool grips. are they real stag ?
i appreciate everyones response, i have read each reply and i'm greatly pleased at how much attention this ugly duckling of a revolver has gotten. I have the revolver now and i am going to take pictures and post them here further revealing more information.
Also, Thefiringline as someone hand mention some there think that you guys here at S&W are snobs and think so highly of your brand.. just to remind people they actually Suggested i come here and post to get more answers. Hugs all around
I will post the pictures you want Lee, let me take them and post..
Also, Thefiringline as someone hand mention some there think that you guys here at S&W are snobs and think so highly of your brand.. just to remind people they actually Suggested i come here and post to get more answers. Hugs all around
I will post the pictures you want Lee, let me take them and post..
GENTLEMEN, we have answers.
Since i had the gun cleaned by one of your folk.. The serial 798 is in fact NOT the entire serial! Once it had been cleaned i am able to make out a full serial of numbers!
The serial for the frame of this gun is *drumroll* 23,798!
Here are some pictures!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson.jpg
In this one you can see the hole that held the ring in place so it did in fact have a ring like someone had mentioned!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson2.jpg
Probably to hard to make out but the numbers DO appear as
23
798
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson3.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson4.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson5.jpg
How odd, on the cylinder there are NO serials at all, nothing. No markings what so ever to identify it. Also it Does fit .357 rounds.
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson6.jpg
All tho you cannot see it very clearly it Does in fact have the serial "23798" on it!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson7.jpg
I hope these pictures and new discoveries help everyone!
Since i had the gun cleaned by one of your folk.. The serial 798 is in fact NOT the entire serial! Once it had been cleaned i am able to make out a full serial of numbers!
The serial for the frame of this gun is *drumroll* 23,798!
Here are some pictures!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson.jpg
In this one you can see the hole that held the ring in place so it did in fact have a ring like someone had mentioned!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson2.jpg
Probably to hard to make out but the numbers DO appear as
23
798
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson3.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson4.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson5.jpg
How odd, on the cylinder there are NO serials at all, nothing. No markings what so ever to identify it. Also it Does fit .357 rounds.
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson6.jpg
All tho you cannot see it very clearly it Does in fact have the serial "23798" on it!
http://purkle.googlepages.com/SmithStetson7.jpg
I hope these pictures and new discoveries help everyone!
ajpelz
Member
Great news!! I am glad to hear that you have got to the bottom of it, and you are officially, "legal"
Like I said and someone else mentioned, time to take it to the range.
I would shoot 38 special out of it for sure, as you can shoot 38 special out of any gun made for 357 magnum. This will be easier on you, and the gun. If you feel the need to run 357 mag out of it, I am sure you could do so, but why not preserve what you have for future generations to enjoy it as much as you are.
Congratulations on a true treasure.
The reason that I find guns so interesting, is because of stories just like yours. The history these guns have is truly amazing. I have a few guns with stories similar to yours, and many more with stories that I can only imagine. K98s, 1903s, M-1's, Enfields.... all have quite the story to tell, you are blessed to actually know yours. Again, thanks for sharing, and not turning it in for a $50 gift card
Like I said and someone else mentioned, time to take it to the range.
I would shoot 38 special out of it for sure, as you can shoot 38 special out of any gun made for 357 magnum. This will be easier on you, and the gun. If you feel the need to run 357 mag out of it, I am sure you could do so, but why not preserve what you have for future generations to enjoy it as much as you are.
Congratulations on a true treasure.
The reason that I find guns so interesting, is because of stories just like yours. The history these guns have is truly amazing. I have a few guns with stories similar to yours, and many more with stories that I can only imagine. K98s, 1903s, M-1's, Enfields.... all have quite the story to tell, you are blessed to actually know yours. Again, thanks for sharing, and not turning it in for a $50 gift card
I would shoot 38 special out of it for sure, as you can shoot 38 special out of any gun made for 357 magnum. This will be easier on you, and the gun. If you feel the need to run 357 mag out of it, I am sure you could do so, but why not preserve what you have for future generations to enjoy it as much as you are.
Congratulations on a true treasure.
The reason that I find guns so interesting, is because of stories just like yours. The history these guns have is truly amazing. I have a few guns with stories similar to yours, and many more with stories that I can only imagine. K98s, 1903s, M-1's, Enfields.... all have quite the story to tell, you are blessed to actually know yours. Again, thanks for sharing, and not turning it in for a $50 gift card
Thank you! I do plan on shooting it but not with .357's I dont really have the wrists to be able to handle something like that..
I am glad to finally figure out mostly, where this gun came from. It is indeed a treasure to me and i will Show how much of a treasure it is to my family come gathering time.
How awesome this is for me, i am so glad i worked up the courage to ask my father for Nana's revolver.
45Wheelgun
Member
Glad this all worked out so well. Congratulations.
Dave
Dave
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Neat old gun! Makes you wish old things could talk!
The cylinder was likely not from the same gun as the barrel. N frame .357 Magnum cylinders were recessed at the cartridge rim back then (from 1935 until 1980 or so), while .38 Special cylinders never were recessed. Your gun's cylinder isn't recessed, so even though it now accepts a .357 cartridge, it was most likely originally from revolvers known as either the .38-44 Heavy Duty or .38-44 Outdoorsman, which were heavily-loaded .38 Special rounds that pre-dated the .357 Magnum.
.357 Magnum revolvers were once very scarce and quite expensive and it was a fairly common practice to take one of the big .38's and deepen/ream out the chambers to accept the longer, higher pressure Magnum cartridge case. While not recommended, it was a common practice once and the re-chambered S&W N-frame guns seem to have held up just fine.
So Nana's old revolver has at least 3 different donor guns as 'parents!'
The cylinder was likely not from the same gun as the barrel. N frame .357 Magnum cylinders were recessed at the cartridge rim back then (from 1935 until 1980 or so), while .38 Special cylinders never were recessed. Your gun's cylinder isn't recessed, so even though it now accepts a .357 cartridge, it was most likely originally from revolvers known as either the .38-44 Heavy Duty or .38-44 Outdoorsman, which were heavily-loaded .38 Special rounds that pre-dated the .357 Magnum.
.357 Magnum revolvers were once very scarce and quite expensive and it was a fairly common practice to take one of the big .38's and deepen/ream out the chambers to accept the longer, higher pressure Magnum cartridge case. While not recommended, it was a common practice once and the re-chambered S&W N-frame guns seem to have held up just fine.
So Nana's old revolver has at least 3 different donor guns as 'parents!'
Neat! interesting that it took 3 guns to make this one, makes you wonder what became of the other firearms and how all these parts came to be. What this a special order from a gunsmith ? Who knows how it came to be..
No markings on the cylinder at all, any idea of what time period it could have came from?
purkle,
Hook up with Lee to work on the documenting project. He's a great guy and I believe both of you would benefit from the relationship.
Really enjoyed following this thread. Thanks a bunch. And like others have indicated, (paraphrased) if I had your revolver and it's history, it'd be priceless to me.
Good show, purkle.
Hook up with Lee to work on the documenting project. He's a great guy and I believe both of you would benefit from the relationship.
Really enjoyed following this thread. Thanks a bunch. And like others have indicated, (paraphrased) if I had your revolver and it's history, it'd be priceless to me.
Good show, purkle.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The 38/44 came out in 1930 and was offered until around 1960. They usually had the serial on the cylinder so yours may have been sold as a replacement part rather than taken off a gun.
If the serial is very faint you might have a smith stamp the number on the side of the grip frame so there's no question about what it is.
Somebody did A LOT of work on this gun.
If the serial is very faint you might have a smith stamp the number on the side of the grip frame so there's no question about what it is.
Somebody did A LOT of work on this gun.
Similar threads
- Locked
