Identifying this .357, Story behind the revolver

[purkle]

Hello folks!

I've come here from google and i'm asking for your help.
Here is a bit of back story for this revolver..

If you want to Skip this part look down for the bold text

My nana (grandma) was a pioneer here in Alaska. She owned and operated a general store here and was also a famous bush pilot.
Gwen Stetson was pretty well known around alaska before state hood, she helped a lot of people eat by delivering food to them in remote locations.
When someone seen a Lady flying her supercub people usually noticed first that she was female and second that she carried a rather large pistol on her hip no matter where she went.

This gun has been featured in quite a few "pioneer" pictures with Gwen here in my state and i'm proud that she had a part in making Alaska what it is today.
Gwen passed away here about 4 months ago her ashes spread out in Canada. Well when i was about 9 and staring into a gun case Only containing this pistol i asked her what she was doing with it. She had said i could have that when i was older. Well after finally getting the courage to ask my father about it, i asked if i could have Nana's revolver as something to remember her by.
Here is a picture of her from 61 doing what she did best
http://purkle.googlepages.com/Gwen1961Cub.jpg

People whom wanted to skip the story stop here.

Now i have a Smith and Wesson 357 Mag in my hand and i've no idea about it.
I see a bunch of numbers and i do not know what they mean and i was hoping you folks could help me learn more about it..

the botton of the grip there is the numbers 798
The slot where the ejector rod sits in below the barrel are the numbers S 79904
The arm that holds the cylinder to the gun, in the very corner near the hinge are the numbers "1943" i would imagine it means the gun was made in 43? I'm no expert
I do not want to Sell this family piece i am here trying to find out more information, please help me folks!

Anyhow, numbers again
Bottom grip "798"
In the ejector slot "S 79904"
Cylinder arm bracket "1943"

Here are some pictures of the revolver.
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson2.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson3.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson4.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson5.jpg
http://purkle.googlepages.com/gwen-wesson6.jpg

 

[Allen-frame]

Welcome to the forum!

What a wonderful story ( I didn't skip it). About a fantastic woman. The picture of her and the Çub "is outstanding! She must have had some courage and sense of adventure to fly the way she did. And caring to take food to those in need. Please tell as much more as you can find, or remember about her.

You must order a factory letter for the gun to find out how it originally shipped and where to.

Looking at the pictures closely , the absence of any trade mark or "Made in U.S.A.) on the frame and the number 798 on the bottom of the grip would place the year of manufacture of the frame prior to 1920. This gun started life as something else and had the barrel from a later gun installed along the way. The fact that the grip frame is not serrated would make this a 38/44 heavy duty frame converted to 357 Magnum. If the 798 serial number on the grip frame is complete ,it would mean the frame was made in 1908. Are you sure there are not 4 or 5 numbers there? Is there possibly a hole drilled for a lanyard ring in the serial number on the butt of the gun that has obscured a couple of numbers?
Any numbers on the rear face of the cylinder? These should match the frame #s.
The S79904 number is the serial number of the donor gun made in 1951 that gave its barrel to this converted gun. That is why it only appears in the ejector rod cut out.

Give it a good spraying down with break free or other high quality gun oil and wipe it down really good. Leave a light coat of oil to halt the rusting process thats started.

Any history as to where she got the gun? Do take pictures of the numbers ,and where you found them and post them for us.

Thanks ,,Allen

 

[purkle]

i have modified a picture to resemble what mine looks like under the grip

 

[purkle]

What a wonderful story ( I didn't skip it). About a fantastic woman. The picture of her and the Çub "is outstanding! She must have had some courage and sense of adventure to fly the way she did. And caring to take food to those in need. Please tell as much more as you can find, or remember about her.

Longtime Alaska resident Gwendolyn "Gwen" Irene Stetson died April 12, 2009, at Fairbanks Memorial Hospital after a lengthy illness. She was 77.

She was born on Jan. 2, 1932, in Riverside, Calif., to Edward and Thelma (Harrison) Grip. Her family moved to Grants Pass, Ore., where she graduated high school.

She married Ken Jones (my grandpa) in July 1949, and they moved to Alaska shortly thereafter. They settled in Spenard and opened Albers Feed Store. They were also co-owners of Totem Eggs, which operated chicken ranches in Palmer, Anchorage and Seward.

She earned her private pilots license in the 1950s and was a lifetime member of the 99'ers, a northwest-based flying club for women pilots only. She flew her Super Cub around southcentral Alaska, ferrying family and friends to their cabin at Beaver Lake and spotting fish in Prince William Sound. She was one of Alaska's first female bush pilots, and she operated a grizzly bear guiding operation on Kodiak Island for some time.

She attended Faith Christian Community Church with her daughter, Karen, on a regular basis.

She married Ron Fox in January 1964 and later moved to Seward, where she and Fox owned and operated Eight Star Eggs, which still operates today as Alaska's largest in-state egg producer.

In March 1971, she married Capt. Herb Stetson, moving to Juneau in 1976, where they lived until Herb's death in 1987. Gwen was a master gardener and landscaper and ran Gwen's Garden Centre from her home in Juneau. After Herb's death, she lived in Haines for a short time and then spent several years moving between her cabin in Tagish Lake in the summers and Anchorage in the winter.


obviously a snip from her obituary.. She always had a strong opinion about everything and she stood up for what she believed in. She was a grandma that always loved to over feed you, "Eat eat! your a growin boy!" she used to tell me.

Dad said she carried a 306 with her in the plane but had the barrel sawed off as it was to clumsy to get in and out of the plane with the longer barrel. She used the 306 for hunting moose wich she did very successfully and the 357 i have now was for bear protection.

She was no ordinary women thats for sure, she did alot of Man's work throughout her life, started a few businesses, was a guide at one point.. Far and away the most notable person of my families recent generations.

I wish i could get more information about the revolver, where she got it.. how long she had it, was she the only owner.. but i dont know.

I need to determine if this is indeed a Smith and Wesson revolver or just the barrel of one before i send off for papers.

 

[Allen-frame]

It is definitely a Smith revolver. It has just been modified from its original configuration. Are there any numbers on the back face of the cylinder? Wipe it down real good and see.

Thanks for the story. Regards ,,Allen

 

[purkle]

i am going to hafto wait till later on today to find out, i dont have the revolver with me currently, sent it with a friend whom is real big into guns, works at a gun shop.. He said he'd take a look at it and find out more information about it.

 

[murphydog]

i have modified a picture to resemble what mine looks like under the grip

Hi, from this photo the most likely "donor" for the frame is a military model 1917 in .45 ACP. These were stamped (from the rear bottom of the grip frame, with separate lines divided by /) U.S./ ARMY/MODEL/1917/No./xx/xxx. Someone has polished or milled off all the stampings except the last 3 digits of the number. It should also have a hole for a lanyard ring, or a plug where the ring post was seated in the frame. Given your gun has the 3 1/2" barrel and cylinder from a .357, you probably won't find the full serial number anywhere else, but it would normally also be found on the rear cylinder face, on the barrel flat above the ejector rod, and on the back side of the extractor star. What a cool memento and "piece" of history! Thanks for sharing.

 

[surveyor_nm]

I agree on the converted .38-44. I don't see any checkering on the topstrap, and the chambers aren't recessed.

Awesome story, though!

Bill Mahnke #1915

 

[purkle]

guys that photo i posted is not the gun i have just a reminder in case anyone did not notice that..

That was just some photo of a revolver that i had edited to resemble mine.. Once i get it back i will post actual photos of the bottom grip

 

[bmhiii]

Great revolver and story purkle, thanks for sharing.

 

[handejector]

Hi purkle,
Welcome aboard. Nana sounds like quite a lady! I swear I remember reading 30-40 yrs ago about her guiding somebody's Kodiak hunt.

The frame of your gun is definitely a Model 1917 frame. This is confirmed by the "GHS" initials at the top corner- in front of the hammer. That is Col. Gilbert H. Stewart, the chief inspector for the 1917's.

The "cylinder arm" is called a yoke.
There will be a number on that yoke, and the same number should be on the frame, in the cutout where the yoke fits. This may be the 1943 you refer to. These are just assembly numbers, NOT a date, and really have little meaning to us. They were put there to keep a fitted yoke with the frame it was fitted to.

That yoke WILL have a serial number, but it is hard to see. It is on the surface facing the front of the cyl. In other words, you have to look thru a chamber to see it, or take the cyl out of the gun, which is very easy to do. Remove the front sideplate screw, and the yoke will slide out of the frame, then you can wipe the dust off and see the number. It should match the number on the butt.

I'd love to hear more.

 

[JSR III]

Very interesting story. She even outlasted three husbands. Curious what the mark is in the first picture on the frame up near the hammer. Looks like letters in a small round circle. Also strange that there is no Made in USA or S&W logo on either side of the frame. Wondering if this is a foreign made frame with a S&W barrel attached?

I see Lee ID'd the mark while I was typing.

 

[purkle]

Hi purkle,
Welcome aboard. Nana sounds like quite a lady! I swear I remember reading 30-40 yrs ago about her guiding somebody's Kodiak hunt.

The frame of your gun is definitely a Model 1917 frame. This is confirmed by the "GHS" initials at the top corner- in front of the hammer. That is Col. Gilbert H. Stewart, the chief inspector for the 1917's.

The "cylinder arm" is called a yoke.
There will be a number on that yoke, and the same number should be on the frame, in the cutout where the yoke fits. This may be the 1943 you refer to. These are just assembly numbers, NOT a date, and really have little meaning to us. They were put there to keep a fitted yoke with the frame it was fitted to.

That yoke WILL have a serial number, but it is hard to see. It is on the surface facing the front of the cyl. In other words, you have to look thru a chamber to see it, or take the cyl out of the gun, which is very easy to do. Remove the front sideplate screw, and the yoke will slide out of the frame, then you can wipe the dust off and see the number. It should match the number on the butt.

I'd love to hear more.

Oh what wonderful news Hande!
Alright so it does say GHS.. Is the Make of the gun still a S&W? I'm still confused as to Who made this revolver, or whom made the rest of it besides the barrel.

The number 1943 is indeed on the yoke and on the frame matching up like you said.

Tomorrow i will have the revolver back and i will look for this serial..

I have so many questions still.. Was this gun put together of many parts? The frame came from a military revolver the barrel from a later revolver? I'd like to know how many parts are from different revolvers that made up this family heirloom..

Also, as it sits.. should i try to get some papers for this? do i need to get papers for the barrel and for the frame? Is the barrel from a different revolver and the rest of the gun from the same one?

Geh! i sooo want to find out all this =)

 

[purkle]

Very interesting story. She even outlasted three husbands. Curious what the mark is in the first picture on the frame up near the hammer. Looks like letters in a small round circle. Also strange that there is no Made in USA or S&W logo on either side of the frame. Wondering if this is a foreign made frame with a S&W barrel attached?

I see Lee ID'd the mark while I was typing.

Thanks for the kind comments JSR, she was indeed quite a women and a handful in her old age. She sure made a mean carrot cake

 

[handejector]

Yes, the frame is an S&W frame, made for the Model 1917 in WW I. The 1917 was a 45 cal revolver.

So, what you have is a 1917 frame, with a 1950's 357 barrel. The cyl is probably from a 38 Heavy Duty.

What would help us most is:
Find the serial number on the back of the yoke- the one that is hard to see.
Post a good pic of the rear of the cyl so we can see the number, if any.
Post a good pic of the butt.
Try a 357 cartridge in it to see if it will go. The cyl may still be 38 Spec, but it could have been reamed to 357.

Yes, it is a parts gun, built from all S&W parts.

 

[handejector]

I forgot-
getting a letter is not really worth the cost of $50. All it will tell you is when the 1917 frame shipped, and we can guess that within a month or two by the complete serial number on the back of the yoke.
It would not tell you anything about who built the gun as it is, or when......

 

[purkle]

thanks a lot, i will get that serial when it is returned to me and i will update this thread then! =)

 

[Art Doc]

Is that 798 the complete serial number? If that's not the original and complete serial the gun is contraband.

I hate to be the bad guy here but we all know that federal law prohibits removing or altering a serial number and any such gun is immediately considered to be illegal and subject to seizure and destruction. Any FFL (including a gunsmith) who is given this gun would be obligated by law to surrender it to authorities.

If you don't wish to lose it you would have to refrain from EVER bringing to anyone's attention, again.

 

[purkle]

Is that 798 the complete serial number? If that's not the original and complete serial the gun is contraband.

I hate to be the bad guy here but we all know that federal law prohibits removing or altering a serial number and any such gun is immediately considered to be illegal and subject to seizure and destruction. Any FFL (including a gunsmith) who is given this gun would be obligated by law to surrender it to authorities.

If you don't wish to lose it you would have to refrain from EVER bringing to anyone's attention, again.

Now i'm really scared.. i need to know for sure whats going on because i do not want to lose this family piece, it means a great deal to me and my family.
Anyone positively sure if this is an illegal weapon?

 

[DCWilson]

Looks like a postwar adjustable rear sight. One presumes the smith who assembled this gun for Gwen did the frame modifications that permitted the sight installation.

I wouldn't usually take much interest in a gun assembled from parts, but this one gets huge style points because of the life story of the person who carried it.

Purkle, I don't know if you took Lee's point about the possible cylinder modification. If that is a cylinder from a .38/44 (as seems likely) and it hasn't had its chambers lengthened to accommodate the .357 Magnum round, then the gun is functionally a .38 Special regardless of what it says on the side of the barrel.

SP is correct that a gun needs a full serial number on its frame to be legal. As you inventory all the markings on the gun, you might also want to pull those stocks and see what other marks there might be on the frame.

The finish on the frame looks pretty good for a 90+ year old gun that has spent some time in a challenging environment. Without being able to point to any obvious evidence in your photos, I'd ask you to consider that the original gun may have been reblued at some point. Maybe at the time all the pieces went together? If so, your grandmother would have had a pretty good looking gun when she first took delivery of it.

Most guns are interesting, but they are more interesting when they have a history that is meaningful to the owner. This is a wonderful family heirloom. You are lucky to have it. Congratulations.