If I only had a gun 20/20

[neiljrosen]

Very biased, in one segment they had students with an hour's training defending themselves in a classroom shootout situation. The "Bad guy" shooter was a highly trained LEO. Of course he was able to outgun the student. What would the outcome have been if the shooter role was portrayed by someone with minimum experience just like the student. I doubt an emotionally disturbed killer who goes on a rampage would have the same handgun skills as the LEO in the segment.

 

[tomf52]

BarbC - I for most part agree with you however serious concerns come to mind regarding isolating children from guns in the home. Legilation with teeth is needed there. Also in question in my mind is the gun show loophole. While those of us on this board and others are responsible owners, there are too many that use this situation to obtain guns. Also another point. Here in PA in some coun ties, Lackawanna being one of them, you walk in the door of the sheriff's with your money and walk out with a concealed carry permit. BS to that! I have left the public ranges too many tiimes because people with no idea of what they are doing with a gun are showing that ignorance. Somebody is going to get hurt because of this.

 

[diamonback68]

Originally posted by tomf52:
Here in PA in some coun ties, Lackawanna being one of them, you walk in the door of the sheriff's with your money and walk out with a concealed carry permit.

Really, well how do they override the requirement for an FBI background check, which can take up to 90 days to complete? Do they somehow circumvent the Federal Law?

 

[Wheelgunner840]

tomf52,

You raise some good points, but I have to ask one question. Do you know for sure what kind of laws already exist in your state regarding childrens access to firearms in the home? Even if you do know, a vast majority of people do not. I, for one, do not know what PA laws entail with regard for storage of unattended arms in the home. Then again, I don't live there.

To be honest, our own firearm laws in RI are extremely vague in some areas. Those of us who actually put the time in to research these laws can easily come up with different meanings.

My point is, that most people, whether law abiding or not, usually do not know the local state and federal laws that pertain to them and their firearms. They should know, but most do not. Would the answer be more laws, or a simplification of them?

I think laws should have "teeth" in them, but should also be understandable to the common person who wants to do the right thing, but is not capable of deciphering 60 pages of legalese to find an answer.

WG840

 

[Grayfox]

You don't teach children gun safety by isolating them from firearms. You teach it by educating them about guns. Children are curious critters by nature. If you forbid them from touching something they naturally want to learn about it.
Show your kids your guns, take them to the range with you, show them what a firearm is capable of so that they understand why they shouldn't touch them until they're old enough.
That's how you teach kids gun safety.

One of my favorite stories: Some years back I was getting ready to go to the range. I was getting stuff together and had my Model 17 in my hands when I was distracted by something. I laid the revolver on the kitchen table and went about doing something else. A few minutes later my younger son, who was about six at the time, came to me with the gun in his hand. He handed it to me butt first with the cylinder open and said in a very stern voice "You shouldn't leave this laying around."

Aw screw 20/20. I'm going to shoot my IDPA match.

 

[Careby]

Aside from using all the inflammatory buzzwords, like "gun show loophole" and "assault weapons", and blatant distortion of statistics, like quoting ten-year numbers to get bigger numbers, and questionable numbers at that, what stood out to me was the gun show piece and it's total discontinuity of logic, as in:

1. Man purchases guns legally at gun store, passing background check.
2. Man tragically kills girl and others at VT.
3. Therefore buying guns at non-dealers, without background checks must be stopped.

 

[jeffsmith]

A TV show that gives someone who has no firearms experience 1 hour of training
and then expects them to successfully defend against an experienced gunman ON CAMERA

would be like NASCAR Today having someone take a drivers-ed course
then putting them in the Daytona 500

Its not just Biased
its Irresponsible

(Edited for somewhat more clarity)

 

[pbslinger]

tomf52- "Legislation with teeth" preventing unauthorized access to guns is a great idea, as well as all trasfers going through a government entity.

You just bent over for having your guns confiscated. Feels good doesn't it?

Your scenario will eventually include: firearms storage certification, probably ammo serialization, ballistic fingerprinting, firearms locked and disabled at all times, responsabilty for your guns if stolen. Then complete firearms registration and eventual confiscation.

You don't get it. They don't want gun safety or less crime, they want your guns.

 

[tomf52]

pbslinger - I get it very clearly. The fact remains, there are those of us who exercise common sense with firearms ownership and those who do not. The actions of those who do not bring about the incidents that focus all the media attention at us caring owners. This is just as counterproductive to our cause as anything.

 

[tomf52]

Wheelgunner - To be honest I don't know the detail Of PA laws about guns and children because keeping my guns locked in safes all the time removes that worry from me.

 

[tomf52]

Jeffsmith - Who said anything about a "1 hour course"? I think a practical course in safety and handling is a must. What time it requires.

 

[tomf52]

Grayfox - "Isolating" perhaps was a poor choice of words as obviously some can't read through things. How about "keeping children away from firearms without adult supervision"? Is that better?

 

[tomf52]

Diamondback68 - You tell me. In PA it is up to the county sheriffs to issue. How they do it is beyond me but my neighbors 87 year old father did just that. Wwalked in and out with his permit in 30 minutes. Mine in another county took the 45 days they have to issue or deniy, but I'll tell you this, they never checked any of the references I gave them.

 

[ladder13]

Originally posted by wheelgun28:

Also who didnt know if an armed attacker bursts into a room and aims directly at you, you cant draw and fire fast enough, especially when you have a GIANT oversize shirt on. You know, the rule of twenty one and all that. Wow really a big surprise....

+1 I found it amazing that the "bad guy", almost immediately upon entering the room,fired upon the only person in the room with a concealed weapon. How did he know?

 

[ncy54]

Saw it. I though that the intent here was much more insidious. I think that this was an attempt by the "anti's" to stem the huge increase in firearm purchases since last November. After all, the more Americans who own firearms, the more powerful we become as a political force.
They targeted the masses who are considering purchasing a firearm, but don't know much about them.
Their message was:
1. guns will kill your loved ones
2. guns will be useless in any defensive situation
3. guns will kill innocent bystanders and get you sued and/or jailed
Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall at their pre-production meeting?
"Let's see....how can we get all these morons to stop buying all those guns? How about some scare tactics involving their kids, classmates, friends? We can also top it off with some scenes of a hellhole where the local police can't control the criminal populace!"
BTW, those 14 to 16 year old gangbangers ceased being "children" a long time ago. The pictures reminded me of child soldiers in Rwanda. Only Glocks and Tec 9's instead of AK's.
The ten year statistic was another neat trick. Some of our members here didn't catch the time frame used. Imagine the average viewer thinking, "My God! 60,000 children a year!"
Final rant: I can't experience the gunshow "loophole" here in NJ, as there are no gun shows permitted here. I need to go to NY and PA for my fix in that matter.
Person to person transfers in NJ reqiure:
1. long guns-valid FID, photo ID, filled Certificate of Eligibility form, paperwork kept on file by both parties.
2. handgun-valid FID, photo ID, Permit to Purchase a Handgun form, paperwork sent to State Police, issuing PD, and also kept on file by both parties.
Scary, huh?

 

[jeffsmith]

Originally posted by tomf52:
Jeffsmith - Who said anything about a "1 hour course"? I think a practical course in safety and handling is a must. What time it requires.

I meant the situation the show presented
where the kid with little experience
is given a brief class then given a gun and told to defend the class

Not real life where everyone should get as much training as possible
it turns out many CCWers actually have more Range Time than the local police

thanx BTW I edited the original post to try to be more clear on what I meant

 

[Jeb Stonewall]

It did have some good comedy spots.
How about the teenagers cleanin out the garage and finding the guns?
I thought I was watching a 3 stooges flick!
1st. stooge-"Is it loaded?"
2nd stooge-looking down barrel "I don't know, I need a flashlight"
Then the other stooges after finding the guns,, loaded it and tried to shoot it in the garage!!! they were cleaning out!!!
When the gun didn't fire they declared the ammo was blanks!
Where did they find these stooges ?
In this day of sheeple it only shows that these teens have no idea of what a gun is because more than likely they never seen a gun in real life let alone fired one.
I wouldn't have been shocked if the teen stooges thought the guns were just fancy hammers.

I've got six kids that were raised with guns.
And from the time any of them were big enough to pick up a gun they knew the rules about guns.

 

[Peter J.]

I'm 53 years old now. When I was 13 years old I remember liberal former congressman Abner Mikva doing short little 30 second public information rants on Chicago television about how all guns needed to be banned. It used to make me crazy, even when I was punk kid. Now I ignore these a-holes. There is no way I was going to watch that show as we all know where its going to go. Why give them the time of day, raise your blood pressure, and ruin your evenings? Life is too short, thats why we have the NRA and SAF.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Originally posted by tomf52:
Wheelgunner - To be honest I don't know the detail Of PA laws about guns and children because keeping my guns locked in safes all the time removes that worry from me.

Tom, Like you, my firearms are ALWAYS either locked up, or on my person/in my direct control. I think that we as gunowners have a better chance of getting that word out, and having the importance of it expressed, than intricate laws that most people won't ever read. They would only become aware of such laws after the fact.

I do not place much faith in a written law acomplishing much in and of itself. We as gunowners should go the extra mile and spread the word when it comes to gun safety. It was not that long ago that long guns were displayed in a rack, hanging in living rooms throughout this country, or in glass doored cabinets.

Back then, if I remember correctly, there was a lot less crime, and one almost never heard of a gunman going crazy and killing a bunch of people. The only one that comes to mind was the nutjob who went on a killing spree from that college tower in Texas. If I remember correctly, law abiding people held the killer at bay with their hunting rifles (retreived from their vehicles?) until the LEOs got the BG.

The times have changed in three very important ways.

1- The news gets across the country in seconds these days, and the media will always go for the most sensational news. That, unfortunately, means parading the tradgedies.

2- The absolute and total demise of moral character in this country has caused an increase in criminal behavior. The family unit has become non-existant in many urban areas. We the law abiding suffer at the hands of the lawmakers by being forced to follow more and more laws that the criminals will never follow.

3- The liberal mindset of ill-informed people (60-Minutes producers) as well as the power hungry control freaks in government (left wing congress) have absolutely no concern for freedom, the Constitution, or common sense. They will continue to use the tradgedies as their leverage for control over the law abiding. It makes no sense at all.

We must use common sense (real common sense, not the kind the Brady bunch uses) to educate firearm owners and those who do not choose to own firearms, to the true facts. I know this sounds crazy, but we must push individual responsibility as a means of keeping our children safe, without having to give up our freedom.

You, I, and most others on this forum, are exercising individual responsibility, and know that the only way to prevent accidents, is to teach others how to be saftey conscious. The law makers do not give a hoot about keeping anyone safe. They care about control. Period.

WG840

 

[Frizzman]

I didn't watch it. I knew it would be garbage. Diane Sawyer resembles a nanny with gas pains and is a vapid as the rest of those types. The major media outlets all present their opinions as actual, objective fact. They use inductive reasoning. One comes to a conclusion and looks for evidence to support it. The result is worse than worthless.

The flaws in their shooting scenario are obvious. So far as kids wanting to play with guns goes, where does the facination combined with total ignorance they develop come from? It comes from the trash they see on TV and in movies and in the video games. The very company that puts on the anti gun "report" makes mountains of money selling shows and games that focus on glorifying violence and murder. They are the worst type of hypocrits.

My child was exposed to firearms in a responsible fashion from the earliest age. She was taught about the danger. I took her out and let her watch me shoot warious weaspons at objects. She had eye and ear protection but the noise and destruction made quite an impression on her. She understood that guns are NOT toys. I keep most of my arms locked in a safe. She has always known she could look at and handle a gun by just asking Daddy. She has never touched any gun without asking. That is how you prevent gun accidents with kids. Otherwise, one must be sure that the kid will NEVER have contact with any guns. How probable is that?