I'm Not a Cop but...

I got a very nice tutorial on Name, Image, Likeness (NIL) from the athletic director of a very large state university here.

That is why when we see some of the videos we see, the "civilians" involved have their faces blurred, background signs are blurred, and even license plates are blurred.

What are they going to do about it, the man asks?

They will sue your butt in civil court and get some amount of money, plus of course legal fees if they win.

How much money? Who knows? If it's someone famous who makes a portion of their income from NIL proceeds it can be a lot if someone else is making money off it.

Of course you will spend a lot of money mounting your own defense.

Famous people make some part of their money from NIL, but they also know that free publicity is worth a lot.

OTOH, if you are recording an interaction between a public official and an individual for the purpose of creating a record for a complaint, defense, or other legal issue you can get away with it.

I know of two cases where people taking pictures or recording police actions in public areas were arrested. In one case the newspaper photographer accepted the officer's apology. In the other, the police officer and his agency lost in federal court. His career was not ruined, but further promotional opportunities were "limited."



biku324 said:
What is not public are their identifiable interactions, those that do not result in arrest or don't occur in court or government building, with officials for someone's private profit (e.g. put on YouTube by an influencer or aspiring such) without the person's express approval.
Click to expand...
 
Please explain why there are videos, years of videos, all over social media with with people saying they don't want to be filmed? There are thousands cop watcher videos, why aren't the producers of those videos being sued into oblivion by civilians?

If any of those cases were successful, all those videos would be taken down and the cop watchers would be out of business. They're not.

Yeah, good luck in court suing the producers and everyone else who reposts that content.
 
No. Do your own research. You might start with Crocker v Beatty, a 2021 decision which distinguished between places and situations protected by the First Amendment in a specific case. Do pay attention that the 11th Circuit quoted SCOTUS' "...oft repeated instruction "not to define clearly established law at a high level of generality" in discussion of First Amendment issues in this public video case. SCOTUS let this decision stand.

Millions of people break speed limits, drive drunk, or ignore immigration laws without ever having any consequences. That doesn't mean either activity is legal, it just means they haven't been held to account.
 
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Research is not throwing out case names without discussions of the facts and legal reasoning. I extended the courtesy of providing a specific starting point at the most recent SCOTUS ruling (to let the 11th Circuit's decision stand) with the relevant 1st Amendment public video on public property reasoning.

Once again, if someone has been doing something and not being held accountable, that does not mean their actions are lawful.
 
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biku324 said:
Research is not throwing out case names without discussions of the facts and legal reasoning. I had the courtesy to provide a specific starting point at the most recent SCOTUS ruling (to let the 11th Circuit's decision stand) with the relevant 1st Amendment public video on public property reasoning.

Once again, if someone has been doing something and not being held accountable, that does not mean their actions are lawful.
Click to expand...

Copy and paste summaries

Turner vs Driver


n the case of Turner v. Driver (2017), the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit affirmed a citizen's First Amendment right to record the police, while also finding that officers violated Turner's Fourth Amendment rights by detaining him without reasonable suspicion. The court also determined that the officers were entitled to qualified immunity on some claims, but not on others.

Glik v. Cunniffe

In the case of Glik v. Cunniffe, the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit ruled that a citizen has a First Amendment right to record police officers performing their duties in a public place. The court further held that Simon Glik's arrest for recording police officers on Boston Common violated his First and Fourth Amendment rights.

Smith v. City of Cumming (11th Cir. 2000)

— Facts: 42 USC 1983 Civil Rights action, alleging that
police officers in the City of Cumming, Georgia
violated their First Amendment rights by preventing
them from videotaping police actions.

— Rule: people have a First Amendment right, subject
to reasonable time, manner, and place restrictions,
to videotape or photograph police conduct.

— Holding: although the plaintiffs had a First
Amendment right, they did not prove that the
actions of the defendant(s) violated that right.

Fordyce v. City of Seattle

The Ninth Circuit alluded to the right to record in Fordyce v. City of Seattle, ruling that there was a First Amendment right to gather news, specifically when that news related to matters of public interest. In Fordyce, an individual recorded bystanders at a protest and was arrested for violating the state’s wiretapping statute. The court granted qualified immunity to all but one officer because there was a genuine dispute as to whether the officer interfered with the individual’s right to gather news
The court reversed judgment for the officer on the injunctive/declaratory relief as well as 1983 civil rights action.
The judgment for the city and individual officers on 1983 actions was upheld. So the only 2 issues remanded back to the trial court were the 2 above.
 
What about the "Karens" out there

...who harass people and record them while doing so. Even often getting physical with the people they are recording for whatever reason....then get mad when someone records THEM!

Again, double edged sword. Seldom does anything happen to them even if they get arrested and the video they record is used against them.

Imagine being in a supermarket wearing a concealed four inch pencil barrel S&W M10 and being followed by one such individual who is recording with her cell phone and telling everyone "He's got a gun. He's got a gun. Look, he's got a gun." Everyone ignored her including the guy wearing the Model 10 and eventually she crawled back under the rock she came out from under.

The guy was completely legal yet he was being harassed. All he was doing was buying groceries in a large grocery store yet he was being harassed.

The guy was ME.
 
This is from a Nov 28, 2024, article in Forbes Magazine:
"New Mexico has the dubious distinction of being the most dangerous state, with high rates of both violent and property crimes."
I acknowledge that the smartest people in the room think the public benefits from harassing and filming cops trying to do a job that increasingly fewer people are willing or able to do, but I'm an idiot...so the idiot in me asks why on God's green earth would a person that lives in a perpetual crime wave embrace the harassment of, and think that cops are the societal ill? I know, stupid question, I'm too daft to understand.
 
Not sure how this thread devolved from departmental micromanagement of it's officers to posturing 1st Amendment rights but as always it's been a fun ride thru Forum Land.
It's unfortunate that a video posted tends to exacerbate a problem due to the self promoting tendencies of gutless wonders who are afraid to even pick a hot button topic to stir reaction on the street, just wandering about with a vanilla catch phrase that no one could possibly object to then wait until Sarge is walking 50 ft. away before questioning his manhood.
These people make the paparazzi chasing Justin Bieber look like Richard Avedon.
 
dockmurgw said:
This is from a Nov 28, 2024, article in Forbes Magazine:
"New Mexico has the dubious distinction of being the most dangerous state, with high rates of both violent and property crimes."
I acknowledge that the smartest people in the room think the public benefits from harassing and filming cops trying to do a job that increasingly fewer people are willing or able to do, but I'm an idiot...so the idiot in me asks why on God's green earth would a person that lives in a perpetual crime wave embrace the harassment of, and think that cops are the societal ill? I know, stupid question, I'm too daft to understand.
Click to expand...

Certainly a true statement, well said.
 
I had a family member murdered in Albuquerque. First press, then incels came around hoping for titillating photos, videos, or statements. I ran their asses back to to sidewalk , which is public, and assured them that if they bothered any of us coming and going (we had to sanitize the crime scene so the kids wouldn't be re-traumatized) that the police would be least of their new problems.

Lookie-loo vultures. I've always despised them, and in that incident I was not restrained by my employment as in years past.
 
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dockmurgw said:
This is from a Nov 28, 2024, article in Forbes Magazine:
"New Mexico has the dubious distinction of being the most dangerous state, with high rates of both violent and property crimes."
I acknowledge that the smartest people in the room think the public benefits from harassing and filming cops trying to do a job that increasingly fewer people are willing or able to do, but I'm an idiot...so the idiot in me asks why on God's green earth would a person that lives in a perpetual crime wave embrace the harassment of, and think that cops are the societal ill? I know, stupid question, I'm too daft to understand.
Click to expand...

I'd like to apologize for any feelings I hurt by making uncomfortable posts.

I'll tell you why NM is the most dangerous state. It's because of the one party rule and bail reform.

You know why people film police in ABQ, it's because of their notorious reputation that goes back decades. Decades. It's for their own protection. Then, there's 30 years of corruption involving multiple agencies, and bunch of cops on the Brady-gigglio list. Anybody who grew up in ABQ knows... APD went under federal oversight for a reason. Then there's former BCSO sheriff, "machine gun" Manny who got in trouble with the ATF in a nation wide machine gun importation scheme. So who is worse the actual criminals or the police themselves? As far s I'm concerned the cops who looked the other was are just as bad. Now, they can't do whatever and hide behind qualified immunity.

Yet, I'm the bad guy for pointing things out.

Speaking of "courtesy", a few weeks back I PMed biku324, offering him magazines for his new rifle, on my dime with no strings. I have nothing personal against the guy, I just don't agree with him. I'm just trying to be nice. But, I heard nothing back. Not even the courtesy of a response.

If it were me, I'd say thanks, but no thanks and that'd be that. But that's just me.

If I'm on his ignore list, I consider that a badge of honor! Thanks for telling me!

Here's a fun, Sunday news story for you all.

Man charged over viral TikTok videos in New Mexico State Police uniform
Giuli Frendak | KOB

Man charged over viral TikTok videos in New Mexico State Police uniform - KOB.com

Charge dropped against man who wore NMSP uniform in viral TikTok videos
By KOB
April 26, 2024 - 5:22 PM

Charge dropped against man who wore NMSP uniform in viral TikTok videos - KOB.com

A judge dismissed the charges against Aldin Hamdy. Judge Morgan Wood said the evidence showed Hamdy was charged for the content of the videos and not for the unauthorized wearing of the uniform
Click to expand...

Again, please, accept my apology, I'm so sorry if I caused hate and discontent.
 
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Though I generally work very hard to not bring it up...in fact this is the first, I am a Corrections Officer, and I have some thoughts.

When you get rid of qualified immunity, you lose a great majority of qualified officers. I go about my duties in a way I can be proud of. I have shed tears with my inmates, and I have shed tears for my inmates. Working in the infirmary, I just watched a man die of bone cancer. His last day, he kept screaming for help, and begging for someone to help him get through the door. He kept saying it was locked, and not letting him in. People can villify us to their heart's content, but that hurt all of us who were present. That was an expected death. Murder, suicide, and staff assault are much worse. I ain't got enough pomp and pretense to pretend I'm the perfect shining example of virtue, but I will simply say that I go to bed with a clear conscience.

We are being constantly grieved and taken to court for most anything real or imagined, we simply cannot function and assert ourselves properly without it. I don't know another decent officer who does not feel this way. I am currently being threatened legally for trying to make a man shower. Most of these lawsuits we face are garbage, but as they say...if you fling enough poo at the wall, something is eventually going to stick. I am not getting hemmed up and putting the wellbeing of MY family at stake while performing my day to day duties. I have seen many good officers punished unfairly for petty, simple human error. I have no faith in those who judge, especially if they have never set foot inside a prison.

The right to film us? Well...that's one thing I like about working behind the wire-There's not some raging...errr...fine gentleman trying to catch our every slip on a cell phone and implicate us as fools or tyrants at every turn, though there is a ratio of 125 to 1 writing home and telling families fabricated tales exaggerations, and single sided stories, featuring us as the bad guys.

There's always some self entitled hero, bursting into probation offices, prison lobbies, employee parking lots, and even in front of our homes to "expose" us. Not to be overly dramatic, but we deal with truly awful, very dangerous people on a scale most people couldn't imagine. Sometimes, those folks would prefer to see us dead. these First Amendment Heroes endanger us and our families by camera stalking us. I will not argue it's legality. I will state that I have many, many words to refer to them that I dare not utter in this medium. Just because it's legal does not make it right. Some of those self entitled "Champions of the First Amendment" have served time themselves, and still maintain contact with fellow friends and gang members on the inside. "Hits" can and have been ordered, from the outside in and from the inside out.

We've had people roll up right into the prison and sit there, silent intense stare, clenched jaw, refusing to respond to the queries of the investigating officer. Going out of their way to act completely unnatural, while "Flexing their first amendment rights" At the very time that is happening we could have a staff member that has just been assaulted, a riot, rape, murder, suicide, gang fight, etc. that we have to respond to, yet we are taking away from already depleted man power to deal with these clowns. Once again, I will not argue the legality, but I will argue the morality.


Though I may sound bitter to those who would hold an opposing view in this matter, I am not. I am complimented, flattered, and thankful. The fact that so many well meaning people can can be so far removed from the realities of law enforcement and first responders, as to pull such stunts, and hold such views is a clear indication that we are doing our jobs well.
 
Shrek Of The Arctic said:
Though I generally work very hard to not bring it up...in fact this is the first, I am a Corrections Officer, and I have some thoughts.

When you get rid of qualified immunity, you lose a great majority of qualified officers. I go about my duties in a way I can be proud of. I have shed tears with my inmates, and I have shed tears for my inmates. Working in the infirmary, I just watched a man die of bone cancer. His last day, he kept screaming for help, and begging for someone to help him get through the door. He kept saying it was locked, and not letting him in. People can villify us to their heart's content, but that hurt all of us who were present. That was an expected death. Murder, suicide, and staff assault are much worse. I ain't got enough pomp and pretense to pretend I'm the perfect shining example of virtue, but I will simply say that I go to bed with a clear conscience.

We are being constantly grieved and taken to court for most anything real or imagined, we simply cannot function and assert ourselves properly without it. I don't know another decent officer who does not feel this way. I am currently being threatened legally for trying to make a man shower. Most of these lawsuits we face are garbage, but as they say...if you fling enough poo at the wall, something is eventually going to stick. I am not getting hemmed up and putting the wellbeing of MY family at stake while performing my day to day duties. I have seen many good officers punished unfairly for petty, simple human error. I have no faith in those who judge, especially if they have never set foot inside a prison.

The right to film us? Well...that's one thing I like about working behind the wire-There's not some raging...errr...fine gentleman trying to catch our every slip on a cell phone and implicate us as fools or tyrants at every turn, though there is a ratio of 125 to 1 writing home and telling families fabricated tales exaggerations, and single sided stories, featuring us as the bad guys.

There's always some self entitled hero, bursting into probation offices, prison lobbies, employee parking lots, and even in front of our homes to "expose" us. Not to be overly dramatic, but we deal with truly awful, very dangerous people on a scale most people couldn't imagine. Sometimes, those folks would prefer to see us dead. these First Amendment Heroes endanger us and our families by camera stalking us. I will not argue it's legality. I will state that I have many, many words to refer to them that I dare not utter in this medium. Just because it's legal does not make it right. Some of those self entitled "Champions of the First Amendment" have served time themselves, and still maintain contact with fellow friends and gang members on the inside. "Hits" can and have been ordered, from the outside in and from the inside out.

We've had people roll up right into the prison and sit there, silent intense stare, clenched jaw, refusing to respond to the queries of the investigating officer. Going out of their way to act completely unnatural, while "Flexing their first amendment rights" At the very time that is happening we could have a staff member that has just been assaulted, a riot, rape, murder, suicide, gang fight, etc. that we have to respond to, yet we are taking away from already depleted man power to deal with these clowns. Once again, I will not argue the legality, but I will argue the morality.


Though I may sound bitter to those who would hold an opposing view in this matter, I am not. I am complimented, flattered, and thankful. The fact that so many well meaning people can can be so far removed from the realities of law enforcement and first responders, as to pull such stunts, and hold such views is a clear indication that we are doing our jobs well.
Click to expand...


May God bless you and all those that work "In the valley of the shadow of death."

I had hoped this thread would just die off, but your posting here reminds me that professionals (like yourself) make me very proud to have worn the uniform and be called your brother.

Working the on the dark side of law enforcement can't be comprehended by the average citizen. These stress filled careers lasts for much longer time than simply one tour. Everyday, year in, year out, the challenge to duty is there. Your whole career, standard of living, retirement, pension and etc, can be jeopardized by a three-second decision.

Your post made my day.


,
 
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