Interesting Book About Snubby Concealed Carry Use

Lots of information including other sites referenced in this post!
Just finished looking a the speed strips from zetasix.com mentioned in the revolverguy site. Gives some options that I have not seen. Thanks HarryChristopher for starting this post!!!! 😊
 
Regarding grips that cover the backstrap, my wife chose the Ruger LCR in. 38special because of the Hogue grips that come with the LCR. Nice cushioned backstrap design. I have the Pachmeyer Compacs on my Charter Arms Police Bulldog in. 38 special w/ 2" barrel, and to my hand I have not found anything more comfortable. I have had the CA since the 80's. My wife liked it also but much preferred the LCR weight for carry in her CCW purse. She carries mid-range wadcutters and my CA carries +p HP or the FBI load.
 
Mr. Harrychristopher....one of the most eloquent and well thought out series of posts I have read in a long time...do you happen to live in the People Republic of Taxsachusetts?

As to pocket carry...I was just wondering if you have practiced at all drawing the gun while seated seat belted in a car or in the booth at a restaurant...

Thanks again for all your thoughts and observations...

Bob

Due to family obligations I am in fact at present located in that state whose support of lawfully armed citizens is sung about by one and all around campfires far and wide.

I understand the direction of your inquiry pursuant to pocket carry and how the issue of accessibility can be hampered by this method of concealed carry. I have tried several decent OWB holsters but find that I just do not enjoy having the gun riding on my belt.

As in most endeavors in life there is no free lunch as they say. I give up a certain degree of firearm presentation flexibility relative to the draw from a seated position in a public domain while employing the pocket holster. But at the same time I also gain what I believe could be a rather vital positive element in a potentially frightening interpersonal interaction the merits of which may lead me to believe that I am facing an actual articulatable threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

A professional LEO's job requires "riding to the sound of gunfire" as part of the implementation and execution of their positional responsibilities. As such their training focuses on the threat of possible violence as an expected part of the dispatched call. A regular citizen will not necessarily have any forewarning that a potential life and death encounter has suddenly enveloped them because they have not been trained to consider that possibility as part and parcel of being out and about in public.

The criminal's intent is to surprise their victim so they can gain immediate control of the situation to their advantage. A normal individual facing this sort of threat is at a decided disadvantage because they now have to react to the criminal's action. In this sort of interaction the person who initiates it has the distinct advantage over the person who has to react to it.

A IWB or OWB requires 2 hands to access the concealed firearm, one to remove the concealing cover and the the strong hand to present the gun. The ability of the potential victim to think and function with any degree of physical or mental acuity will be severely degraded by the stress that this sort of situation has now overcome them.

Their stomach feels like it has dropped to their feet, their mind is racing at nano speed trying desperately to accept the jeopardy that they now find themselves in and work out a successful response that will keep them alive and out of jail and bankruptcy court, their vision will be the purest form of tunnel vision that they have ever experienced and their hearing will be so focused on the threat that a tractor trailer could drive right up next to them and they would not even notice it. All in all it will be, if they survive it, one of their life's more memorable moments.

The reported severe degradation of fine motor skills may impede their ability to quickly uncover the gun and draw it with any realistic hope of trying to catch up to the force continuum that has been set in motion by the attacker. Since they have to use 2 hands for the draw from a belt holster that is not worn openly they now have limited ability to ward off the attacker with their non-dominate hand since it will be engaged trying to clear the covering from the holster.

So after finding oneself in this nightmarish scenario what possible edge can a lawful concealed carry individual possibility have to work with? How about we use the non-dominate hand to attempt to ward off the threat as a means to try and gain whatever tactical distance between ourselves and the threat as we can. And how about we have the firearm firmly in our grasp BEFORE the threat has even materialized which is how we come to have that spare arm to fight off the attacker with in the first place.

We now find ourselves able to employ the same element of surprise as the threat has employed against us initially because they did not know we were armed in the first place and actually paying attention to what was going on around us. One can stand around in public with their hand nonchalantly parked in their front pocket and nobody is going to raise their eyebrows and say what is that person doing with his hand in his pocket? This act looks normal and nonthreatening even when one is surrounded and inundated by a plague of snowflakes of biblical proportion. This hand in the pocket is firmly grasping the grip of the gun and ready to present it without further delay compared to unholstering from a belt mounted holster. It is a surprise to the threat because it is unexpected since they expect to see the classic belt holster draw routine. This surprise might just possibly be of real use in trying to save a life in this sort of encounter....ours.

Sitting in a vehicle or public booth of some sort is going to slow the presentation but I believe that even in this situation the pocket holster is still a viable option should one choose to avail themselves of it. It is not perfect by any subjective standard but drawing from the pocket still strikes me as a bit less convoluted than having to lean into position so that I could uncover the gun with one hand and draw it with the other.

Hopefully, at the end of the day, thinking about such events will turn out to have been an academic exercise and we will be able to practice sufficient situational awareness and avoidance so we never have to go thru the soul corroding experience of fighting to stay alive. One expects that sort of stress in an active war zone but i was under the impression that we had not reached that state of being just quite yet.

Harry
 
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Welcome to the forum, Mr. Christopher. Thanks for your thoughtful posts. I believe we share residence in the Happy Valley, as I recall that awful case at a local Walmart a few years ago. The pocket-carried 642 is one of my favorite companions, especially when the day's clothing choices prevent the choice of a larger or heavier firearm. I also own steel-framed Models 36 and 649, which you and your wife would be welcome to test-drive some time. Feel free to send me a PM if I can be of any help with regard to local clubs, shops, ranges, etc.
 
Welcome to the forum, Mr. Christopher. Thanks for your thoughtful posts. I believe we share residence in the Happy Valley, as I recall that awful case at a local Walmart a few years ago. The pocket-carried 642 is one of my favorite companions, especially when the day's clothing choices prevent the choice of a larger or heavier firearm. I also own steel-framed Models 36 and 649, which you and your wife would be welcome to test-drive some time. Feel free to send me a PM if I can be of any help with regard to local clubs, shops, ranges, etc.

Thank you for the gracious welcome. I will keep your generous offer of assistance in mind.

Harry
 
I have moved from a semi-auto to a revolver recently due to my hands becoming arthritic. Racking a slide is difficult and I am not always successful in doing it right.

As for the limited capacity of a revolver, it is better than a stick.
 
I will take a contrary view here, which goes against all convention and will probably piss people off.

I believe J-frame revolvers in the weak hands are a one-shot weapon in most cases, unless those weak-handed people practice a lot and are able to manage recoil for follow-up shots. Even commercial wad-cutters have enough recoil to be problematical. I'm always surprised when people recommend J-frames as the first gun, especially for women, until I realize these people making the recommendations are men who shoot a lot. I think they assume most people who shoot are as talented as they are.

To me, a snubby revolver is an expert's gun. Someone can become competent with one if they practice a lot, but they're so unpleasant to shoot new shooters won't shoot them a lot. And I understand the attraction of revolvers for neophytes. My wife preferred my Model 65 3" over any of my superior-fire-power autos for the same reason mentioned above...no controls,point and shoot. She didn't like to shoot and the Smith she kept under the bed was mostly for morale purposes under the apparent belief that shooting a revolver in a SD situation was somehow intuitive.

My personal opinion for most women would be about anything other than a .38 J-frame. Two or three rounds from a .32 APC (for example) is far more effective than one shot from a .38, I believe. Or even a .22 LR from a reliable gun. I've got two J-frames and won't shoot them more than 5-10 rounds unless I put a lot of rubber on them...and even then they're still not for casual shooters.

But that's just my opinion and I might be wrong.
 
I guess you skipped over the part where the OP said his wife was an experienced shooter.

Personally, I think it's a case-by-case basis. Underestimating people can be just as bad as overestimating people.
 
I wasn't talking about the OP's wife, I was talking about J frames in general with most women who are not experienced shooters, which I have found out as an instructor is more often the case. One issue addressed doesn't mean all issues are addressed in general. I assumed this thread with 48 posts was not just about the OP's wife.

Of course it's a case by case basis. If you run up on a experienced shooter of J-framed revolvers who has relatively weak hands, I believe they're in the minority. As an instructor, you pretty well have to underestimate abilities until proven so they can learn. Overestimating ability with a rather strong recoiling handgun is exactly the problem I talked about.
 
The Ruger LC9 is a DAO hammer-fired polymer framed semi-auto, so are the SCCY line of pistols.

So are the Keltec PF9 and P11, which the LC9 and SCCY are almost exact copies of.

That said, the half-cocked DAO PF9 and LC9 trigger are much better than the fully uncocked DAO SCCY or P11.
 
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If you differentiate between shooting and personal defense, the J-frame remains an ideal self-defense weapon for pretty much anyone. Most people who buy a gun do so because they simply want a means to defend themselves. They don’t want a new hobby, to spend time on gun forums, join a subculture and they aren’t likely to go to the range and practice shooting. A DAO snub is a very reliable, simple and safe firearm that tolerates neglect very well. It could be considered an “experts gun” in the sense of learning to shoot it well in the context of how many do so at the range or if engaged in an actual firefight, with the latter being a virtually non-existent possibility for civilians. Carrying their firearm consistently, being able to access it quickly in response to a sudden close-quarter attack and for it to function reliably no matter the grip, stance or movement involved as well as if contact is involved is infinitely more important than any type of marksmanship skills and the J-frame provides this in spades.
 
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If you differentiate between shooting and personal defense, the J-frame remains an ideal self-defense weapon for pretty much anyone. Most people who buy a gun do so because they simply want a means to defend themselves. They don’t want a new hobby, to spend time on gun forums, join a subculture and they aren’t likely to go to the range and practice shooting. A DAO snub is a very reliable, simple and safe firearm that tolerates neglect very well. It could be considered an “experts gun” in the sense of learning to shoot it well in the context of how many do so at the range or if engaged in an actual firefight, with the latter being a virtually non-existent possibility for civilians. Carrying their firearm consistently, being able to access it quickly in response to a sudden close-quarter attack and for it to function reliably no matter the grip, stance or movement involved as well as if contact is involved is infinitely more important than any type of marksmanship skills and the J-frame provides this in spades.
Yes, but.... Those non-practicing, inexperienced carriers somehow need to understand they probably aren’t going to be able hit much (except bystanders) beyond 10 or 15 feet without practice.
 
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Yes, but.... Those non-practicing, inexperienced carriers somehow need to understand they probably aren’t going to be able hit much (except bystanders) beyond 10 or 15 feet without practice.
And 99% of ALL of us, unless we are in law enforcement or other security type job, have any reason to be shooting at another person past that distance.
 
This page has an interesting collection of information about snubnose revolvers in general: The Snubnose Files

That reminded me of another online resource. While the late Stephen Camp was best known for Hi-Powers, he's posted a bunch of articles on snubby revolvers and other guns on his website under "Other Handguns." It might be worth checking out.

Hi Powers and Handguns
 
That reminded me of another online resource. While the late Stephen Camp was best known for Hi-Powers, he's posted a bunch of articles on snubby revolvers and other guns on his website under "Other Handguns." It might be worth checking out.

Camp J Frame Book.jpg

Mr. Camp also wrote an excellent book about J Frame Snubs that is still available for on line ordering. I received my copy last week and found it to be a wonderful resource for individuals interested in this genre of revolvers.

Harry
 
Let me put in my 2 cents

recoil can be a problem. Why not go with a 640 Pro Series?
weighs 8 ozs. more than 642 so less recoil
No internal lock
Comes with moon clips for easy reload
Night sights
With the original rubber boot stock it take me over 1/2 second for follow up shots with factory .357 loads and can be painful.
I changed to factory banana grip lightened the trigger pull from over 12 lbs. to 8.5 lbs.
I carry it everyday in an ankle holster and never notice. I will be 70 in Sept, so I'm not a young pup.
I haven't taken it to the range since I lightened the trigger pull and changed stocks. I will next week and shoot factory .357, 38 +p and 38 WC.
With all of that said, It is worth the $120 or so more than the 642 due to the Dovetail Tritium Night Sights and no Hillary hole.
 
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