gwpercle
Member
No law say's you can't have one in 40 and one in 9mm , perfect excuse to buy another in my book !
Gary
Is .40 S&W as powerful as .357 Magnum?
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
- Start date
Gary
I've been shooting and carrying a 40sw since 1990 For the last 10 or 11 years a 155gr gold dot boutique load at 1318 fps but home rolled 150gr sierra at 1285fps before that from a tp40 kahr or sig p320c . 135gr GD will exceed 1420fps in both . Now compact the to a 2 thru 3 " barreled 357 and the 40sw out performs a 357mag and I hunted with 357mag since 1976 but with 8" barrel and hotter than normal factory ammo too . 170gr sp at 1410fps .
I carry my 40sw even when hunting and have killed a couple deer over time with my 40sw when they show up under my tree stand and the hot 155gr bonded gold dot loads work well but there straight down shots 20 to 22 feet and both were pass thru shoots of 17" plus with heart lung on one deer and no bone hit while the other was a glancing spine shot and found bone in the heart and major lung damage . First deer ran 20 yards second deer dropped in its tracks .
But is the hot 40sw any better than some of the better bullet designs like a fat slow 180gr HST and the ranger loads ? Those bullet expands very well too .
But none of the typical defense cartridges are all that so place you bullets well and keep shooting as needed !
I carry my 40sw even when hunting and have killed a couple deer over time with my 40sw when they show up under my tree stand and the hot 155gr bonded gold dot loads work well but there straight down shots 20 to 22 feet and both were pass thru shoots of 17" plus with heart lung on one deer and no bone hit while the other was a glancing spine shot and found bone in the heart and major lung damage . First deer ran 20 yards second deer dropped in its tracks .
But is the hot 40sw any better than some of the better bullet designs like a fat slow 180gr HST and the ranger loads ? Those bullet expands very well too .
But none of the typical defense cartridges are all that so place you bullets well and keep shooting as needed !
JohnHL
Member
Thanks, Dvus for speaking truth to the sheep!!!
I regret that I can only like this post ONCE!!!!
John
In a word.......No.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 8,987
- Reaction score
- 11,137
Simply put, but certainly the correct answer.
No need for name calling by................ a devotee of the "Short and Weak"; especially one who carries a custom 3913/469.
Besides; who you calling "sheep"...... some of us never drank the cool-aid and stuck with the 9mm and .45s and .357 magnums while the "sheep" followed along behind the FBI like good little lambs !!!!!!
As I stated in my post #21 above there is no magic bullet from any handgun.... carry what you like; it doesn't effect me one way or the other.
If "modern" 9mm ammo is in fact as good as 1990's era .40...... great my 9mm now preforms the same as the .40 ammo whose performance you found satisfactory for 20 years ...... bottom line I still got more of the newer,better, harder hitting 9mm rounds in my gun than if it were a .40.
Last edited:
hkcavalier
US Veteran
No. There are guys getting 1800fps or more with 125gr bullets and 1600fps+ with 158gr from Coonan autos with 5" barrels (and a significant portion of that 5" is chamber). While both are carefully crafted for the Coonan, neither are over pressure.
125gr @ 1800fps and 158gr @ 1600fps are both right at 900 ft-lbs, totally impossible for a .40S&W.
125gr @ 1800fps and 158gr @ 1600fps are both right at 900 ft-lbs, totally impossible for a .40S&W.
JohnHL
Member
If the shoe fits, wear it. 
Seriously, I've never based cartridge selection solely on popularity.
I certainly prefer ammo that is readily available and capable of doing the job at hand: (9mm; 40s&w; 45acp; .223; .308; .30-'06; 12 gauge; even .22lr and .22mag.)
And I am certainly able to deduce that larger bullets pushed by more powder will likely cause more damage.
The "sheep" are those individuals (not agencies) that have decided 9mm is preferable to 40s&w because it is no longer "in style".
History repeats itself.
I'm old enough to remember the 1960s when the .357 magnum supplanted the .38 special in the holsters of the nation's LEOs.
Then the social unrest came, Cops were called pigs and murderers, and the .357 was seen as an overpowered, brutal, sadistic choice of cartridge.
Big city politicians urged the departments to return to the .38 special as a more "politically correct" loading.
Thanks to heavily armed cocaine dealers (There's an unexpected phrase), the public began clamoring for the police to be better armed.
Hence higher capacities and more powerful ammo.
The political winds have once again shifted, and I am ashamed to observe that many big city political leaders would prefer to having an officer killed in the line-of-duty than have an officer kill a career criminal who always happens to be a "gentle giant" pictured wearing his 5th grade cap and gown, and "turning his life around".
No, BAM-BAM.
The sheep are those who are selling their .40s&w handguns or eschewing the cartridge because they "think" it has fallen from popularity and they can't stand to be "out of style".
These are the "sheep".
Not surprisingly, most of these folks are the same people who have little to no idea how their equipment operates.
Sorry.
I'm one of those rapidly disappearing people who values facts over feelings.
John
Seriously, I've never based cartridge selection solely on popularity.
I certainly prefer ammo that is readily available and capable of doing the job at hand: (9mm; 40s&w; 45acp; .223; .308; .30-'06; 12 gauge; even .22lr and .22mag.)
And I am certainly able to deduce that larger bullets pushed by more powder will likely cause more damage.
The "sheep" are those individuals (not agencies) that have decided 9mm is preferable to 40s&w because it is no longer "in style".
History repeats itself.
I'm old enough to remember the 1960s when the .357 magnum supplanted the .38 special in the holsters of the nation's LEOs.
Then the social unrest came, Cops were called pigs and murderers, and the .357 was seen as an overpowered, brutal, sadistic choice of cartridge.
Big city politicians urged the departments to return to the .38 special as a more "politically correct" loading.
Thanks to heavily armed cocaine dealers (There's an unexpected phrase), the public began clamoring for the police to be better armed.
Hence higher capacities and more powerful ammo.
The political winds have once again shifted, and I am ashamed to observe that many big city political leaders would prefer to having an officer killed in the line-of-duty than have an officer kill a career criminal who always happens to be a "gentle giant" pictured wearing his 5th grade cap and gown, and "turning his life around".
No, BAM-BAM.
The sheep are those who are selling their .40s&w handguns or eschewing the cartridge because they "think" it has fallen from popularity and they can't stand to be "out of style".
These are the "sheep".
Not surprisingly, most of these folks are the same people who have little to no idea how their equipment operates.
Sorry.
I'm one of those rapidly disappearing people who values facts over feelings.
John
Top 10mm loads are close to top .357 revolver loads. The .357s go a little faster; the .10mm are a bit heavier. The .40 cannot equal top 10mm loads.
hkcavalier
US Veteran
Indeed. Interestingly, the 9x25 Dillon produces similar ballistics from a 5" 1911 as the Coonan .357 with max loads. Both do that nice "ring of fire".
I look at the .40 S&W a little differently.
Historically, the .38-40 got the job done just fine in a rifle or carbine with a .401 diameter 180 gr cast bullet at about 1,150 fps in a rifle, and less optimally at about 800 fps in a revolver.
The .40 S&W was developed when the 10mm proved to be a bit too much for many FBI agents to handle, which led to a reduced FBI load, which lead to the shorter but nearly equivalent .40 Short and Wimpy.
And the .40 S&W has pistol numbers that are pretty close to the old .38-40 carbine velocities.
"More" isn't necessarily "better", just as "great" is the mortal enemy of "good enough".
----
Similarly, it you do a dive into the big data around self defense and officer involved shoots, you'll find that once you get to the .357 Magnum, you don't see much improvement as you move to larger bores like the .40 S&W, the .45 ACP, the 10mm, or even the .41 and .44 Magnums. They all get the job done just fine within a range that's lost in the statistical noise.
----
In terms of 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W, the .40 had more going for it back when 9mm hollow point performance was much worse than it is today.
Now, what little you gain in terminal performance over a good 9mm Luger hollow point is more than offset by the reduced magazine capacity you get with those fat .40 S&W cases.
The same argument applies to the .357 Sig, which is a great cartridge, giving .357 Mag performance, but with .357 Mag recoil, and those larger diameter cases that reduce magazine capacity.
I played around with the .400 Cor Bon back when it was a thing and came to the same general conclusion. You got a nice, fast .40 caliber bullet, but you still had .45 ACP magazine capacity.
Historically, the .38-40 got the job done just fine in a rifle or carbine with a .401 diameter 180 gr cast bullet at about 1,150 fps in a rifle, and less optimally at about 800 fps in a revolver.
The .40 S&W was developed when the 10mm proved to be a bit too much for many FBI agents to handle, which led to a reduced FBI load, which lead to the shorter but nearly equivalent .40 Short and Wimpy.
And the .40 S&W has pistol numbers that are pretty close to the old .38-40 carbine velocities.
"More" isn't necessarily "better", just as "great" is the mortal enemy of "good enough".
----
Similarly, it you do a dive into the big data around self defense and officer involved shoots, you'll find that once you get to the .357 Magnum, you don't see much improvement as you move to larger bores like the .40 S&W, the .45 ACP, the 10mm, or even the .41 and .44 Magnums. They all get the job done just fine within a range that's lost in the statistical noise.
----
In terms of 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W, the .40 had more going for it back when 9mm hollow point performance was much worse than it is today.
Now, what little you gain in terminal performance over a good 9mm Luger hollow point is more than offset by the reduced magazine capacity you get with those fat .40 S&W cases.
The same argument applies to the .357 Sig, which is a great cartridge, giving .357 Mag performance, but with .357 Mag recoil, and those larger diameter cases that reduce magazine capacity.
I played around with the .400 Cor Bon back when it was a thing and came to the same general conclusion. You got a nice, fast .40 caliber bullet, but you still had .45 ACP magazine capacity.
Last edited:
I hear that discussion a lot about improved 9mm ammo.
I have 147 gr Ranger T in 9mm, but I also have 180 gr Ranger T in 40.
Hell I even have Ranger T for my little LCP for when I carry it... got a few boxes in 45 APC too, but just for the cool factor. It's a bit on the large size for everyday carry.
DWalt
Member
The 9x23 Winchester provides close to .357 Magnum ballistics. I load a 124 grain FMJ bullet to over 1450 ft/sec in a M1911.
The 40 is here to stay for a while . I good while back I was at a show and picked up two older 50 rd boxes of COR Bond for 10 each they are 40 cal 135 gr . I do not shoot 135 gr much but I will try them out some time . I bet they are hot .
Cal44
Member
I'm a contrarian. Like to buy when everyone else is selling.
Just bought my first 40 -- a Glock 27.
10 rounds in a gun that can fit in a big pocket.
Works for me.
BTW, I carry a 357 mag snub revolver most days.
IMO 357 mag and 40 s&w are the two best defensive rounds going, and I doubt there is any significant difference in efectiveness.
Just bought my first 40 -- a Glock 27.
10 rounds in a gun that can fit in a big pocket.
Works for me.
BTW, I carry a 357 mag snub revolver most days.
IMO 357 mag and 40 s&w are the two best defensive rounds going, and I doubt there is any significant difference in efectiveness.
Last edited:
EMP3
Member
I'd be most difficult to quantify power as use in this comparison. Were I inclined, I can load .40 S&W with 200 grain bullets to darn close to 1100 FPS, which is darn close to 10MM territory.
Personally, I think the .357 Mag is our most versatile cartridge.
I'd rather have a P229 .40 S&W than a .357 Mag.
The only .357 Mag ammo I use in my gun is 180 grain. This is an excellent bullet-for-cartridge were one to be forced to convince a large black bear to dine elsewhere.
I bought a .357 Mag for fishing in black bear country. I've carried it once. With a 4" barrel, it's big, bulky, heavy, & uncomfortable. If I'm fishing where mean critters live, I'm probably carrying a .40 S&W or a 1911-A1.
Personally, I think the .357 Mag is our most versatile cartridge.
I'd rather have a P229 .40 S&W than a .357 Mag.
The only .357 Mag ammo I use in my gun is 180 grain. This is an excellent bullet-for-cartridge were one to be forced to convince a large black bear to dine elsewhere.
I bought a .357 Mag for fishing in black bear country. I've carried it once. With a 4" barrel, it's big, bulky, heavy, & uncomfortable. If I'm fishing where mean critters live, I'm probably carrying a .40 S&W or a 1911-A1.
EMP3
Member
You mean diminishing returns? It sounds like your Coonan is the poster gun for diminishing returns.
Just exactly how fast does a handgun bullet have to travel to reach maximum efficacy?
American1776
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2014
- Messages
- 1,770
- Reaction score
- 4,269
I think the full power .40 S&W get's pretty darned close to factory .357 magnum.
The 155 gr. .40 s&w does 1,200 ft/s. From a 4 inch revolver, the 158 gr. magnum does 1,220 ft/s.
The magnum can be hot rodded with boutique stuff and hand loads.
For factory stuff; it's a wash.
The 155 gr. .40 s&w does 1,200 ft/s. From a 4 inch revolver, the 158 gr. magnum does 1,220 ft/s.
The magnum can be hot rodded with boutique stuff and hand loads.
For factory stuff; it's a wash.
Buffalo Bore has a hot rod 10mm that'll equal or exceed anything in .357 mag.
Similar threads
