Is a new diesel really worth it?

[dasnake]

I see you......

Gassers don't have engine retarders like diesels as they don't have enough compression or exhaust back pressure. Gas motors can use a butterfly valve to restrict the intake which provides a small degree of engine braking, but nothing nearly like an exhaust brake.

The one on my Chevy is excellent and I always use it while towing. When combined with the excellent tow/haul mode on the Allison tranny, it is powerful enough that on a 7% decline I can tap the brakes to activate the exhaust brake and my truck will slow down without my foot on the brake pedal while towing my travel trailer.

Are IAFF, are you retired or working? My post mentioned transmission retarder, back in the mid 70s our dept had engines that were Fords, gasser and automatic, the trans had a separate pedal for the retarder where the clutch pedal was on the old LaFrance trucks, now that being an emergency vehicle the retarder might have been just in those large applications, we used to call them breadtrucks, looks wise they were just that, I remember late 60s a company I dealt for had 427 chev dump trucks that also had retarders in them also.

 

[Kanewpadle]

My only experience with diesel and gas is full size service vans.

We used gas service vans for 30 years or so. The we decided on a diesel. We bought a Mercedes Sprinter van. Total vehicle weight is about 7500 pounds. I was getting around 22 MPG and the torque was amazing. I would leave similar sized and weight gas vans in the dust going up hill.

The other thing I liked is that you can use the engine to slow down the vehicle going down hill.

Maintenance and repairs have always been more expensive but worth it in my opinion.

 

[Golphin]

If I was going to be pulling a big travel trailer where there are hills and mountains I would go with a 1 ton diesel dually for sure. Probably a Ram 3500.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Minimalistic Pickup Thinking

 

[Glockman9mm]

1. My 3/4-ton Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 with the Duramax diesel will get just north of 21mpg on the highway and 13.5mpg while towing my #8000 travel trailer.

2. When was the last time you actually priced pick-up trucks??? Your friend can expect a pricetag of $70-90K for what he wants.

3. A diesel option isn't only for "how much and how often" you tow. If you keep your trucks for a long time (let's say 10 years) then the diesel makes sense because the truck retains more value. My truck is a 2013 and the trade-in value is still $42-47K - and that's TRADE-IN, so retention of value is definitely a factor.

4. Maintenance costs being much higher for a diesel is an urban myth. I've been driving diesels since the mid-90s and never replaced an injector yet (a 1995, a 2004, and my current 2013). Oil and filters costs exactly the same as gassers, which are now using more costly oils themselves. I only have two maintenance gripes - on my motor the water pump is internal and a real bear to replace, and when I need new batteries I have to get two of the largest ones available at the same time (you never replace only one). Other than using 10qts of oil over 6qts in a typical 350, there is no real difference.

5. For Chevy only that I know of, if you go with the diesel you get the Allison tranny. Right there that is worth the price. You can get them worked on in any truck repair center and they have an external filter for easy changing (especially if you do your own service).

6. And last but not least, during any sort of large-scale natural disaster diesel fuel is always the first to get resupplied so the large trucks can keep running. This is a lesson I learned back in 2004 when we got hit by Hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jean all within 6-7 weeks.

Good luck to your friend on his search for a new truck, regardless of what he ends up with!

Thanks for the input!

 

[Glockman9mm]

2 things:
1) The new Godzilla Ford 7.3 gasser for a 2k charge is worth every penny.
2) I learned a long time ago its not how much your truck can tow/haul.........its how its STOPS with a load. That's where these half ton idiots loaded up like a 1 ton get in trouble. The truck can't stop it.

Have you drive one of the new 7.3 gassers?

 

[Glockman9mm]

Has anyone mentioned the engine brake that works so well with deezul, I rely on mine all the time and takes a big load off my mind when going downhill through mountain passes, I don't know for sure but do any gasser transmissions have retarders anymore?

My 2017 with the 6.0 gas has hill decent control, I dint think it's the same as a exhaust brake. That said the first time it kicked in going down a hill with my 20 foot speedloader weighed down SA kinda trippy.

 

[Glockman9mm]

Minimalistic Pickup Thinking

Whoops!!!!

 

[Truckin]

I love my 7.3 diesel but the new 7.3 gas is very tempting for the cost. I have 295K on my 01 F250 and no engine break I downshift with my 6 sp manual tranny. No manual transmission is what stops me from buying a new truck. IMO diesel if you plan on keeping it 10 years or haul all the time.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I had an 07 Duramax for about 12 years. I towed a 7K trailer with it for about 5 years. The diesel looses when one compares the cost of maintenance to 200K. That's about the time you will rebuild a gas engine. Beyond that mileage the diesel wins and the extra cost of a diesel starts to look good. For what it's worth my Duramax towed my trailer at around 13-14 mpg.

Ask your friend if he plans to keep his new truck long enough to realize any savings in buying diesel. For most people it won't be an advantage. It wasn't for me. I only had 120K on my truck when I sold it after owning it for 12 years. I sold it for 20K. I would have been money ahead with a gas engine because of maintenance costs. Fuel costs were higher for diesel most of the time I owned it. They dropped below gas the last few years. That isn't a reason to own a diesel.

 

[Jon651]

Are IAFF, are you retired or working? My post mentioned transmission retarder, back in the mid 70s our dept had engines that were Fords, gasser and automatic, the trans had a separate pedal for the retarder where the clutch pedal was on the old LaFrance trucks, now that being an emergency vehicle the retarder might have been just in those large applications, we used to call them breadtrucks, looks wise they were just that, I remember late 60s a company I dealt for had 427 chev dump trucks that also had retarders in them also.

I am retired since 2014, and have been a proud IAFF member since 1986. I keep up my "Active Retired" status.

I know about dedicated tranny retarders, but I can't recall even the heaviest of our truck companies having one that was controllable by the driver (if they even had one at all), although I know Allison does still advertise them on some models. I may not be right about this, but I think they were a way to help slow a heavy vehicle without locking up and skidding the tires, but lost popularity with the advent of ABS and ETC.

Exhaust brakes, "Jake Brakes" and engine retarders (which are just different names for essentially the same thing) are what I am most familiar with. The Tow/Haul setting on my Allison tranny for my Chevy 2500HD gives a noticeable braking effect; add to that the exhaust brake (which I do have a switch on my dash for) and I get exceptional engine braking when towing.

 

[glenwolde]

New trucks are in short supply right now. There's a chip shortage due to supply constraints from covid and the long supply lines. Ford had to idle their Kentucky plant for a bit. They've also eliminated a shift. That's where all the Super Dutys come from. Other manufacturers have similar problems. It's not for lack of demand.

Dealers aren't discounting much. In Ford's case I know many are selling at sticker. Used truck prices are up and they are scarce too. Which is why people might approach you.

Trucks are a little different from cars. If you need a truck, you need a truck. Nothing else will do and the need is often dependent on another factor....like work. You're not going to tow a Bobcat around with a GMC Terrain. Or you've just bought an expensive RV. Big fifth wheels are really popular (and also in short supply). Next to some of these a truck at sticker looks cheap.

For a lot of towing applications, only an American nameplate truck will do. It's pretty much Ford, Dodge, Chevy/GMC when you get past a half ton. My Ford F350 dually has close to 1,000 foot pounds of torque. That's huge. I think the next model year Dodge broke 1,000# torque. There's kind of a "torque race" amongst the Big Three in the 1 ton market.

 

[Glockman9mm]

New trucks are in short supply right now. There's a chip shortage due to supply constraints from covid and the long supply lines. Ford had to idle their Kentucky plant for a bit. They've also eliminated a shift. That's where all the Super Dutys come from. Other manufacturers have similar problems. It's not for lack of demand.

Dealers aren't discounting much. In Ford's case I know many are selling at sticker. Used truck prices are up and they are scarce too. Which is why people might approach you.

Trucks are a little different from cars. If you need a truck, you need a truck. Nothing else will do and the need is often dependent on another factor....like work. You're not going to tow a Bobcat around with a GMC Terrain. Or you've just bought an expensive RV. Big fifth wheels are really popular (and also in short supply). Next to some of these a truck at sticker looks cheap.

For a lot of towing applications, only an American nameplate truck will do. It's pretty much Ford, Dodge, Chevy/GMC when you get past a half ton. My Ford F350 dually has close to 1,000 foot pounds of torque. That's huge. I think the next model year Dodge broke 1,000# torque. There's kind of a "torque race" amongst the Big Three in the 1 ton market.

Hopefully in the next year or so the smoke will clear, doesn't seem like a good time to buy.

 

[rubiranch]

Have you drive one of the new 7.3 gassers?

I spend a fair amount of time in two different RV forums and those who have bought a new Ford and opted for the 7.3 gasser are very pleased with them. A lot of them switched from diesels for the very reasons you mentioned in your original post.

An 8000 pound travel trailer is not going to be a problem for that engine.

 

[glenwolde]

Hopefully in the next year or so the smoke will clear, doesn't seem like a good time to buy.

It's not. If you can wait, do so. I've got my RV up for sale, as soon as it sells the truck is going. I plan on getting a smaller truck and trailer in a year or so.

We love the trailer but it's just too big for casual use. It worked out well having the big one, as we spent all of the COVID lock down in a State Park as camp hosts. Great place to spend a quarantine as the parks were closed for a while (we got to stay) and even after that were pretty limited as to number of guests.

We were living in it full time, a big one is nice for that. But the giant RV can't get into a lot of places we'd like to go.