venomballistics
Member
actually its designed for the 410 shotgun.
As a result it is at an ideal burn rate for magnum handguns.
They list some data for it in the heavier weights 158 on up.
Issues generating a fullhouse 357 load
- Thread starter jwalts27
- Start date
actually its designed for the 410 shotgun.
As a result it is at an ideal burn rate for magnum handguns.
They list some data for it in the heavier weights 158 on up.
This is where it came from;
"
To me it was a statement that the OP wanted a "Magnum feel" rather than actual performance. Nothing was said about a possible velocity, he just didn't want a "cap gun" load in his .357 Magnum...
OP
jwalts27
Member
venomballistics
Member
The only time I ever used it was for some 460 magnum loads.
good thing its only a 5 shot revolver.
the flash left sunspots at the indoor range. Had it been a full 6, we'd not have that single patch of usable vision to drive home with. The flame cutting claim probably does have some legs, and probably accounts for Hodgdon favoring heavy bullets to help mitigate some of it.
scooter123
Member
IMO any of the slower Magnum powders will cause some flame cutting in a revolver. One way to mitigate that is to use a flame shield like that seen in the scandium framed revolvers. Really wouldn't be too hard to do, just cut a bit of stainless steel shim stock to the correct shape and fold it so that it will stay in place. However, there would be some head scratching involved in getting the shape correct because S&W doesn't post them for sale in the Web Store.
Personally this is why I like using Accurate #9 for my 357 Magnum handgun loads. It's fast enough that it doesn't produce excessive flash or muzzle blast with 140-158 grain bullets while slow enough to allow a somewhat moderate load to produce 1200 fps from a 6 inch barrel. I also don't build handgun loads that are wrist wreckers or anywhere near maximum. Because I'm old enough to start having some twinges and because Magnum cases are hard enough to obtain that I like to moderate the pressures to extend case life.
Personally this is why I like using Accurate #9 for my 357 Magnum handgun loads. It's fast enough that it doesn't produce excessive flash or muzzle blast with 140-158 grain bullets while slow enough to allow a somewhat moderate load to produce 1200 fps from a 6 inch barrel. I also don't build handgun loads that are wrist wreckers or anywhere near maximum. Because I'm old enough to start having some twinges and because Magnum cases are hard enough to obtain that I like to moderate the pressures to extend case life.
muddocktor
Member
I've read the same thing too, so I have been steering clear of it myself. I imagine it would do just fine in a carbine or non-vented barrel such as my Coonan Classic though, as the flame and powder are contained inside the barrel until it reaches the muzzle.
fredj338
Member
Not so much "reduced" loads as in midrange, but certainly works better for off the top loads than H110 & uses less to get there. Why I have gone back to 2400 for my magnums. I rarely shoot the top end loads, just beats the poop out of the gun. You have to run Unqiue or sim powders pretty hard to get to a 2400 load that is just a bit off the top end. Lower pressures, longer case life, still magnum vel.
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ironhead7544
Member
My 4 inch M686 made shooting full factory loads seem mild. It wasnt until I tried to get max loads from a 187gr WFNGC bullet that I "felt" a little recoil in my hand. Had to go to 1300 fps with that bullet to notice recoil. This was with a AA#9 load that I wont mention.
I had a new shooter try that load in a GP100 six inch. He said there was no real recoil.
Try one of the light weight Magnum revolvers if you want a "sting" in your hand.
Or just switch to a M29. Then you can dial up as much recoil as you would like.
2400 and IMR 4227 were designed for the pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20. They burn clean in rifle length barrels.
IIRC, WW296 was designed for the 410 shotgun and M1 30 Carbine. It can Squibb if you dont have enough powder. Works at top loads nearly touching the base of the bullet.
AA#9 burns clean with the proper charge. Wont get residue under the extractor like the others. Probably best if you might have to make a quick reload.
I had a new shooter try that load in a GP100 six inch. He said there was no real recoil.
Try one of the light weight Magnum revolvers if you want a "sting" in your hand.
Or just switch to a M29. Then you can dial up as much recoil as you would like.
2400 and IMR 4227 were designed for the pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20. They burn clean in rifle length barrels.
IIRC, WW296 was designed for the 410 shotgun and M1 30 Carbine. It can Squibb if you dont have enough powder. Works at top loads nearly touching the base of the bullet.
AA#9 burns clean with the proper charge. Wont get residue under the extractor like the others. Probably best if you might have to make a quick reload.
shil
Member
May I suggest trying IMR4227? I think it's a bit of a "sleeper". My supplier had it in stock when there was no W296/H110, 2400, or A#9 to be seen. I tried it in my 686 and liked it. I don't own a chronograph so I have no idea of actual velocities, but maximum loads had perceptibly less flash and blast than that generated by the other powders mentioned. Burned clean for me, too. Another possibility is Vihtavuori N110. Nice powder but expensive! Good luck and be safe!
venomballistics
Member
This one warrants a like.
I have not gotten a round tuit yet but a fair number of folks here REALLY got this load to sing like Kathy Mateya.
great power and one hole groups in other area codes.
It's a must try.
May I suggest trying IMR4227?
It is one of the ones I have on hand, also, just haven't given it a shot yet
It is one of the ones I have on hand, also, just haven't given it a shot yet
Shooter Magaven
Member
Blue Dot and Power Pistol will get pretty close too.
I like 2400 mostly. But 4227 has been real nice in my carbine. 140gr HNdy XTP is outstandingly accurate. But I get alot of unburnt trash using 4227 in my revolvers.
Most of the data I've seen for IMR4227 has been low velocity. I may be misremembering, but I thought I read that it is a fairly bulky stick powder, and it is hard to get enough of it in a .357 case to reach full velocity. I've read that it is better in .44 mag.
IMHO, 2400 isn't really suitable for mid velocity. It can do it, but is a bit of a waste of powder. The same results can be achieved with medium speed powders like Unique.
In my 2400 experiments in .357 + 160 LSWC, I've gone from 12.0 to 15.0 gr, settled on 14.0 gr. 15.0 was a bit too blasty for me.
IMHO, 2400 isn't really suitable for mid velocity. It can do it, but is a bit of a waste of powder. The same results can be achieved with medium speed powders like Unique.
In my 2400 experiments in .357 + 160 LSWC, I've gone from 12.0 to 15.0 gr, settled on 14.0 gr. 15.0 was a bit too blasty for me.
OP
jwalts27
Member
Thanks to Weatherby who just happens to live near me, he hooked me up with some H110. 16g behind a Bayou coated 158LSWC did the trick. Thanks
Shooter Magaven
Member
I did 16.3 g under 158 jacketed but I found 2400 did slightly better in the velocity department and the primers were not starting to crater.
But im curious, wouldn't that be too hot for a LSWC ? I was always under the impression that lead under (over ?) that much power would cause the bullet to over-obturate and ruin accuracy. Is this true? Or are you using a gas check or a hard cast lead?
Oh, wait, I just read that they were coated...does that make them better handle that heavy load? I have no experience with coated bullets. Coated with what? Powdercoat?
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OP
jwalts27
Member
.
To be honest with you I just started using these Hi Tek coated bullets. Google Hi Tek. Supposedly you can push them just like a plated bullet. I always shoot plated with no issues and wanted to try some of these coated. $10 per 100 free shiping. I ran a few at 16.3 and saw no pressure signs or leading. I cant chrono them as the weather sux around here.
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Murphy's Law
Member
Try some 300MP and all your troubles will be gone if you want maximum velocity and accuracy with either 125 or 158 gr bullets.
fredj338
Member
Depends on the bullet hardness. Cast hard, you can run a conventional lead bullet at jacketed vel with good accuracy. Of course, fit is king, but I've shot 4" groups @ 100yds with my Bisely hunter using 270gr cast of just ww alloy running 1250fps. Probably room for another 100fps, but why?
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Shooter Magaven
Member
Thats good to know. Jacketed, i hear, will add some pressure and slightly lower velocity so my guess is that, that coated lead is sliding through the barrel with less resistance and likely higher velocities than jacketed and resulting in lower pressure (theoreticaly, of couse.)
If that load is accurate than you got a really good combo. I might have to try some of them painted pills.
BTW, whats your barrel length?
OP
jwalts27
Member
Thats good to know. Jacketed, i hear, will add some pressure and slightly lower velocity so my guess is that, that coated lead is sliding through the barrel with less resistance and likely higher velocities than jacketed and resulting in lower pressure (theoreticaly, of couse.)
If that load is accurate than you got a really good combo. I might have to try some of them painted pills.
BTW, whats your barrel length?
Gun is a 686 6" bbl
I did not see how far you were shooting these bullets. In my experience, if these are bevel base bullets you can run out of accuracy past 25 yds. The old standbys like H110 and W296 will get you to top end loads but accuracy is still the most important factor.
When the last round of shortages started I broke out a keg of WC-820 I had gotten for the .30 carbine and loaded LSWC 158gr gas checks with 14 grains of it. It runs about like H110. Used small rifle primers because that's what I had. Cases dropped free with no visible flaws.
Shooter Magaven
Member
Sorry, thought I could find some of my chrono data for 16.3 of H110 - 158gr JHP in my 6" trooper,
But all I got is 16" carbine 16.4 gr H110 - 158 gr LRFP Hard Cast velocity, which btw was avg 1770 f/s.
Scrateshooter
Member
I shot a top load of W296 with a Nosler 158gr JHP out of a 4" M66-2 and a 5" M27-2 and both got my attention. America!
Then I just bought some more factory 158gr JSP since current reloading data is not gaining much and the price difference didn't make up for my time and safety.
Then I just bought some more factory 158gr JSP since current reloading data is not gaining much and the price difference didn't make up for my time and safety.
