It's the 2% that worry me.

Observation? :D

Saying 50% lack common sense is certainly an exaggeration, but there are so many that demonstrate such a SPECTACULAR lack of common sense that it sometimes seems like they make up half the population. :(

Hell, as a cop I trust less than 50% of my colleagues to do the right thing!

As a human my trust level sits at below 10%.

It seems that “rules” are often only enforced when things go wrong or someone actually notices. Actually a lot of it is ignorance of the rules in the first place.

Just this morning I was speaking to a former work colleague of my wife’s. The business has been sold and the new owners have issued the new employment contracts. They have exactly the same dress provisions as the old ones, but as the previous owner allowed these conditions to be flouted (the owner ignored them and the staff followed suit) the staff are upset. As the business is a franchise the franchise owners have been called in to “mediate”. I guess we all know what the results will be.

Some time ago I had a word to my pistol club secretary about shooters ignoring holster rules on the range (it concerned a new shooter whose first holster purchase was a thigh drop holster for IPSC, specifically a no no). I requested the secretary raise it at the next committee meeting and ask that we all get on the same page.

Months later I shot with the same shooter at a level 1 comp. He was now wearing an appropriate holster but it was not “attached to the trouser belt” as required, so I spoke to the person concerned about getting some belt keepers. He had no idea what I was talking about until the Club president, who is also the IPSC regional director, heard us and suggested that he read the rules thouroughly before the next shoot.

I was later told that the Club member who had introduced this shooter and had been “advising” him about equipment purchases was also spoken to about knowing the rules.
 
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Maybe you want to try some increased gun ownership requirements and mandated safety training and age and psychological screenings to get gun ownership rates down?

Maybe also NO open carry and banning guns in most public venues.


Come to NY, we have stupid gun owners but most of them are in the criminal class because it takes a year to get a concealed weapon permit.
 
It’s true that most licensed ccw folks are better shots than LEOs and the main reason is budget. I worked for a major city and we were only required to qualify twice a year. Additionally, most cops have no interest in shooting and find it a PIA. I found that I liked it and what’s more, did not want to be embarassed at the range as I got older and needed glasses to find my way around.


My experience is that the civilians and LEOs and soldiers who like to shoot and do so, shoot much better on average than average LEOs.

I know a probation office who attend state firearms training with other LEOs and he and a corrections officer outshot all the other LEOs of all types there. It wasn't because of department training or budget. It was because they both were avid hunters, practiced with rifle, shotgun and handgun and liked to shoot. They also out shot the others in a virtual 3D Simulator system that ran them through decision making scenarios. The Other LEOs were surprised how good they did, even in making choices on when to shoot when someone was impersonating a police officer. The guys comments were they impersonators lacked a 'behavior' or training component that only a real or former LEO would have known or regularly performed.

Even when on impersonator was in uniform, his actions revealed his intentions.

Its the individual guys and their interest drives skill and safety.
 
Average proficiency of LEO's varies widely from agency to agency. When officers/ agents are held to a standard, the proficiency is much higher. A good buddy to spent many years in training/ qualifying LEO's says that these days, some departments just pencil in a higher score to get everyone to pass. A lot of LEO's have inflated egos, so they don't want to their faults exposed for all to see. This is one big reason for officers not wanting to qualify or attend shooting competitions. As I first said, there are some agencies that hold their officers to a standard. I'd hate to be a supervisor and have to explain to a widow or widower why their spouse was unable to defend themselves due to lack of firearm proficiency.
 
I WAS STATING FACTS, YOU NOT SO MUCH.

You were obviously lamenting the current lack of training were you not? You commented that hunter safety is required to hunt but no requirement for a CCL. Sure sounds to me like you think it should be a requirement and being mandatory and or required is the same thing. Maybe I can work on those knots in my shorts while you work on reading what you write?

I cannot control how YOU interpret MY STATEMENTS OF FACTS then spin them to suit YOUR NEEDS. :rolleyes: "sounds to me like, you think, you were obviously", an awful lot of interpretation & putting your words in my mouth.
 
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Here in Illinois we have to keep our weapon conceal or partially concealed but not open carry !! ILCS 66/10 C. 1   carry a loaded or unloaded concealed firearm,  fully concealed or partially concealed, on or about his or her person;

So partially exposed such as on a windy day when your coat is blown open .. but not to be worn fully exposed such as open carry ..

While shopping I have seen 2 people carrying that had exposed their weapon due to reaching for something above their head and their shirt ended up being between the pistols butt and their body ..

The one man looked at me and I just pointed to a point on my body and when he looked down he realized what he had done and immediately corrected it by pulling his shirt down .. and nodded his appreciation !!

The 2nd time also a man I walked by and quietly said your uncovered .. then continued walking past him .. He reacted like a deer in headlights .. first freezing then bolting to and out the door leaving his cart in the isle .. was almost at a run when he exited the store .. My wife even commented on what was wrong with him ..

Am guessing the first man had had his Conceal Carry for a while .. and the 2nd man had just probably had gotten his and was still somewhat paranoid with carrying concealed .. so 2 much different results from trying to help someone ..

Don't know if I would tell anyone again .. would have to do with the situation at hand ..
 
I bet you can't figure this one out!

Observation? :D

Saying 50% lack common sense is certainly an exaggeration, but there are so many that demonstrate such a SPECTACULAR lack of common sense that it sometimes seems like they make up half the population. :(

There is no practical, or accurate way, to estimate or list their numbers. After more thought, you may have underestimated the number, at 50%! I have been watching for approximately 9 months, the construction of two houses, on the opposite side of our two lane road. It's approximately 100 yards, from our house front, to the house front, of one of the houses, under construction. Both houses under construction, had address, and driveways on our road. The road has been in use over 200 yrs. A small City annexed the land, across the road from us, and my land remains in the township. The City decided to forbid the new residents, on our road, to use their existing driveways to enter our road, took the address signs down, but left the address the same, then made them open, and pave driveways onto a street running behind their houses. They now have to drive 3/4 of a mile, through another section of that city, to gain access to their property, listed, on the road that they live on. I have watched a steady procession of Delivery people, mail carriers, construction workers, hunting the job, building inspectors, People delivering news papers, handbills etc. this procession has gone on day, and night, for many months! Can you imagine, the confusion, wasted time, wasted fuel, and exasperation that this "buzzard Stomp", has caused? To make it worse, some, highly paid, idiot, is sitting back, "laughing up their sleeve", at their self presumed, brilliance, while this idiocy continues! Enough for today. I would like to comment later, on the, the common sense practices used, in the construction, of the houses, on these two properties.

Chubbo
 
The 2nd time also a man I walked by and quietly said your uncovered .. then continued walking past him .. He reacted like a deer in headlights .. first freezing then bolting to and out the door leaving his cart in the isle .. was almost at a run when he exited the store .. My wife even commented on what was wrong with him ..

Am guessing the first man had had his Conceal Carry for a while .. and the 2nd man had just probably had gotten his and was still somewhat paranoid with carrying concealed .. so 2 much different results from trying to help someone ..

Or, the second man didn't even have a permit.
 
In MN it's just a carry permit. It can be concealed but doesn't need to be. In SD, anybody can carry without a permit as long it's not concealed.
 
YOU WOULD KNOW.

Sorry nacho, I know you don't want to hear this but...
That is exactly the way what you wrote came across. Like it or not.
Just sayin'....

I bow to your expertise in how things come across, EXACTLY. (another interpretation)
"PARTIALLY CONCEALED"??? Is that like partially pregnant?
 
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...I have to shake my head because I'm thinking, who was his instructor? Shouldn't he already know these things?
This right here is why I became a concealed carry instructor.

There are a lot of concealed carriers here that don't want to come to my class; it's too long for them. You see, I actually teach the law and how it's interpreted here. It's an 8 hour class. Many other instructors in the area just take them to the range, shoot 20 rounds and send them on their way.

I think your percentages are off, but that's for another thread.
 
I've been carrying a gun for protection against two and four legged predators for a very long time. I was taught the awesome responsibility of doing so at an early age.

When I applied for a concealed permit I knew that I needed to educate myself. In this state, when you receive your permit a reference to the laws regarding concealed carry is included. Many if not most do not read the law. They instead go by what they "heard" from their buddy or gun shop dummy. Most of them are young men that you can't talk to anyway.

As far as 2%, I think that's way off. More like 50%. Having worked at area gun shops and shooting ranges for the last 15 or so years I've run across these folks more than usual. These folks do not know the law. They don't shoot on a regular basis. And they don't maintain their guns or carry gear. In short they don't take it seriously.

I don't worry about them anymore. I have better things to occupy my time. And what I or anyone else may think, these folks have every right to gun ownership and to apply for the privilege of concealed carry. If they are unable to do these things responsibly, that's on them.
 
I bow to your expertise in how things come across, EXACTLY. (another interpretation)
"PARTIALLY CONCEALED"??? Is that like partially pregnant?

Partially concealed would refer to a handgun not in plain view, but clearly visible. For instance, if you had your big ol' gat on your hip, and then just wore a t-shirt that let it print and rode up every time you stopped to tie your shoes.

Some jurisdictions require nigh-perfect concealment. It's still something of a subjective standard--you can spot anybody's gun under the right conditions if you know where and how to look--but you're generally safe if you're not a belligerent jerk and make a reasonable effort.

Others require open carry--no hidin' it at all without a permit.

And others are really nice and have both concealed carry and open carry, which protects concealed guys in the event of wardrobe malfunctions.

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Percentages!

When you argue over what percentage of gun carriers don't know what you're doing, the only thing you're doing is fighting over the gold medal in Elitism. Because clearly, the implication of "98% of gun carriers are mouthbreathing idiots" is "I am in the 2% who's better than that".

Wanna alienate neophyte shooters? Tell them how stupid they are and everything they're doing wrong. That's how you push these people away and create enclaves of Mall Ninja Monthly readers.
 
BC38, just the point I was going to make. Reminding others of a speed limit is not the same, because someone else's driving is not going to impact me or my ability to drive. Some wingnut doing something dumb, or some newbie making a mistake - coupled with others doing similar - could provide "ammo" to antigun groups/media/politicians, who love to exaggerate . Here in Illinois you have to wait three days to pick up a purchased handgun. Period. Until 1991, if you traded in a pistol on a pistol, you could take the new one that day. But the media and chicago dems worked up a frenzy about, what if someone traded a broken gun in on one that worked?? Result, three day wait regardless. I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone in this situation, cause he's ****tin' in my nest.
 
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