J-Frames and 25yard qualifications

[Der Verminator]

Perhaps I am missing something, point shooting is a difficult skill set?? How so?

Because it is a difficult way of shooting and takes much more practice to do well and consistently.

 

[sigp220.45]

But point shooting does let you shoot a very large group at very close range and say: Well, I was point shooting!

 

[John Patrick]

Because it is a difficult way of shooting and takes much more practice to do well and consistently.

I would heartily disagree.

 

[rockquarry]

I would heartily disagree.

I think anyone who has done point shooting on a professionally instructed level would also "heartily disagree".

Regardless, there is little point in arguing any of this. A thread on 25-yard shooting has deteriorated significantly. Nothing wrong with marksmanship improvement to some, while others see no need. Perhaps it should be left at that.

 

[Greyman50]

Basic Marksmanship is a Skill learned. Not mastering correct grip , correct stance, minimum arc of movement, breathing control and site alignment, forget about it. Have no idea how many members here can/ could shoot a National Match course and shoot a 290 something out of 300 possible. Anyone that has acquired the Skill to shoot such can easily pick up LEO or any other “ style” of shooting.
Choice of pistol/ revolver is a trial and error event. We all have seen people that can shoot one or the other better. Have no idea regarding the OP’s situation but sounds like he is starting out.

 

[Dutch87]

Dutch:

From your OP and your statement about the prohibition of hollowpoints, means that you have to be from NJ. If you do not want to qualify at 25 Yards, find someplace else to do your qualification. In the actual statute there is no requirement for qualification, just that you demonstrate safe firearm handling.

The NJSP think that means shooting a live fire course and have generated a form to record/report your results - HOWEVER, there is no prescribed course of fire for the qualification, so different entities within the state are using various courses of fire - many of them at 15 yards and under (a more realistic distance for an armed civilian). At 25 yards you most likely would have the ability to leave the scene without engaging. You are not a LEO. Your CCW permit is for you and those immediately around you (family). Seek out someone else to do your qualification.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Hey now, I didn't say I haven't shot a handgun at that range, sure have, wasn't hard with what I had - I'm saying I've never fired a J-frame, at that range.

I just have respect for the step up in difficulty vs a gun like a 586.

That's all I'm sayin!

 

[Dutch87]

I am old enough that in my academy we had to train and qualify out to the 50. It is a worthwhile endeavor because flaws are more obvious at that distance and confidence goes up with good performance. I'll be having eye surgery in the next couple years because I am old and my eyes are showing it.

Couldn't agree more, absolutely!
Godspeed and goodluck on the eye surgery Doug

If you shoot well with a J frame, fine. I understand the concept of flexibility and thus getting one that fires .357, but I have no plans to shoot .357 in a J frame and will only do so if that is all there is to shoot. I am big enough and my clothes generally casual enough that I can carry something I shoot better - and I can carry my G33 in a pocket holster in dress clothes.

Hmm.
Finding that even some experienced shooters aren't crazy about .357 in a J-frame (even a steel one), has me taking the 360PD off the list. Carries great, maybe I'll look at it in a few years, but for a starter J-frame, I think a light .357 (even fired in 38) might not be as good a choice as a 637 (or 642 style).

.38 RNL? Ugh. While it is probable that some part of the historical failure of that round related to the lack of understanding of tactical anatomy, the square shape of a WC or SWC is far better. (I don't want to get shot with anything, but if I have to shoot someone I want to use a round that gives me the best chance of stopping them - if they die next week, that is not important if they can still continue the acts that justified shooting them.) Most of the time in my M66 I carry standard velocity .38 SWC. The improvement in practical accuracy shown when I do my retired qualification tells me that it is a good choice.

As I read this part about bullet designs, and then the above with the Glock 33 - my apologies for the assumption if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the feeling you're read up on ballistics?

Off topic, but what do you think about the .380 (out of 3in + barrels)?
Are FMJs better than hollowpoints in a caliber like that?

 

[Pizza Bob]

You kind of missed the point. At no time did I intimate that you couldn't shoot at that distance, you were the one that expressed concern about shooting a J-frame at that distance. I simply pointed out that it wasn't necessary because you could find somebody to qualify you at ranges less than 25 yards to assuage your concerns.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[DonD]

Thanks to Justice Thomas we just got carry rights in my state!
The hitch: We have to qualify with carry guns, including making some 25 yard shots.

In my state we cannot carry with hollow points, so I'm thinking I might actually be best served with wadcutters for practice AND carry, making the recoil of a 360PD more bareable.

Thoughts?

What state are you in that STUPIDLY forbids hollowpoints? Bet the cops carry hollowpoints, so you should be able to as well.

Edited to add. Guess your state wants an assailant to have a good chance at surving and killing you. Contempt definitely intended. Likely only a Democrat state would have this nonsense

Simply unbelievable. When I carry my Ruger SP101, it's with max load Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP, over 600ft lbs. Don

 

[Dutch87]

What state are you in that STUPIDLY forbids hollowpoints? Bet the cops carry hollowpoints, so you should be able to as well.

Edited to add. Guess your state wants an assailant to have a good chance at surving and killing you. Contempt definitely intended. Likely only a Democrat state would have this nonsense

Simply unbelievable. When I carry my Ruger SP101, it's with max load Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP, over 600ft lbs. Don

I think it was Thomas Sowell who referred to those policies "as if they were acting like OSHA for burglars".
My state's got some things to fix for sure.
They dream up new ways to hassle people who get fingerprinted and fill out 4473 forms, while they figure out new ways to release individuals with criminal histories that are thick like a phonebook.

My god, 600ft lbs out of an SP101?!
That is spicy!
I plan on ordering some buffalo bore wadcutters to try through whichever Smith I pick (I'm thinking the 637PC is the ticket for me).

There's "good for defensive purposes"
And then there's, "Good for defensive purposes, even if Sasquatch is trying to flip over your tent"

 

[Der Verminator]

I think anyone who has done point shooting on a professionally instructed level would also "heartily disagree".

If professional instruction is required.......I'd say that supports my statement that it takes much more practice to do well and consistently.

 

[rockquarry]

If professional instruction is required.......I'd say that supports my statement that it takes much more practice to do well and consistently.

Not required, just one way of doing it.

 

[Dutch87]

You kind of missed the point. At no time did I intimate that you couldn't shoot at that distance, you were the one that expressed concern about shooting a J-frame at that distance. I simply pointed out that it wasn't necessary because you could find somebody to qualify you at ranges less than 25 yards to assuage your concerns.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Hmm.
While that's not the route I plan on going - I'm realizing that in the years to come there might be someone else reading this who looks at this one like a lightbulb moment and they find it's right for them


Smart thinkin!

 

[StrawHat]

Because it is a difficult way of shooting and takes much more practice to do well and consistently.

Try shooting Bullseye Competition or PPC competition, then talk to me about a “ …difficult way of shooting and takes much more practice…”

Kevin

 

[rockquarry]

Try shooting Bullseye Competition or PPC competition, then talk to me about a “ …difficult way of shooting and takes much more practice…”

Kevin

Bullseye has been tough for me but I enjoy practicing.

 

[edl]

Hammer snag is why GOD invented thumbs. Cover that hammer as you grip the gun and you're good to go.

The first part of the draw stroke is to establish a firing grip on the gun.

Grabbing a gun with your thumb on the hammer is not a firing grip.

The grip should be such that you can fire it immediately after drawing it out of the pocket so that you can fire it one handed in a close in retention position at someone on top of you if need be.

One reason that hammerless revolvers are made is to allow drawing from a pocket holster without snagging.

 

[JimCunn]

"The first part of the draw stroke is to establish a firing grip on the gun.
Grabbing a gun with your thumb on the hammer is not a firing grip".

It's a cocking grip. Speeds up the draw and assures the gun is cocked when it comes level. Just like a single action revolver, and just as fast.

 

[JimCunn]

"but for a starter J-frame, I think a light .357 (even fired in 38) might not be as good a choice as a 637 (or 642 style)".

637-2 is my favorite handgun. I lighten them up with a titanium cylinder and ream them for 9x19. Recoil is a lot worse than .38Sp, but not nearly as bad as .357Mag.

 

[Greyman50]

Dutch, Sorry, just re read whole thread. You mentioned 1911’s, so thats enough for me. Might be a big job but find a LW Commander. Guess you can wear shirt tail out in warm months and of course wear coats in cooler months, easy to conceal. I have found my custom LW Commander is lighter, flatter to carry than my favorite wheel guns, 3” 65, 2&1/2” M-66. Also carry a 640 when just around house or not going far around here.
Try as many different pistols/ revolvers as you can. You will know when its right.

 

[John_M52]

Fellow officer walked into my office one day. He was about to sit down but then reached into his front jeans pocket and pulled out his G17. I just shook my head and gave him a sticky holster.

Sticky or a Remora holster might help with the hammer in pocket carry, if that's what you choose.