Justifying Concealed Carry Reciprocity

[richardw]

For those who find the selves needing to argue in support of concealed carry reciprosity there is an excellent article in the Federalist. It systematically lays out the reasoning that denying concealed carry reciprocity is relegating 2A to the status of less than other co stitutional guaranteed rights. If you are interested, you can read it here:

Without Concealed-Carry Reciprocity, Self-Defense Is Second-Class Right

 

[oneounceload]

And whose law will prevail in NJ? PA? Nope, NJ's. Getting the Feds involved then cedes control to them, and once the libs get back in power, they will further restrict the rights of those from free states like AZ, VT, FL, etc. Do you really want that camel in your tent?

 

[richardw]

And whose law will prevail in NJ? PA? Nope, NJ's. Getting the Feds involved then cedes control to them, and once the libs get back in power, they will further restrict the rights of those from free states like AZ, VT, FL, etc. Do you really want that camel in your tent?

Have you read the House Legislation and the Senate Bill? They simply and directly force the states that do not recognize other state permits to honor those state permits. The one condition is that the permit holder must follow the concealed carry laws of the state so completed to honor. Those states cannot change the terms of my permit nor deny me a permit.

Following the state CCW laws I’d not a burden since they are nearly the same for all states. The fat that some states do everything they can to deny a CCW permit is not relevant. They do selectively issue them and therefore they would have to honor everyone’s.

I don’t see what you are implying as a potential reality.

 

[oneounceload]

Again, so you have a PA permit and go to NJ where NJ currently does not honor anyone else. They also have strict rules for even transporting your gun to the range (and nowhere else_ So what good does it do to give some power to the Feds which will eventually morph into something huge, cumbersome, inefficient, and potentially detrimental to gun owners? What about states that do not issue anything but allow folks to carry openly or concealed? How do they do that in NJ?

 

[Arik]

permit holder must follow the concealed carry laws of the state so completed to honor. .

Richard, I'm in SE Pa too. I go to Jersey often... usually work related. As of right now I leave my gun behind. If this passes and I have to honor NJ laws I still have to leave my gun behind. I don't carry what's considered legal in NJ. I would either have to carry a different gun or carry extra neutered mags and extra box of fmj ammo. Neither of which I want to do. NY is even worse. While I don't go there often I do go there. I can't even carry neutered mags because even those are not legal.

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[richardw]

I suppose it is me but you are not making sense to me. If The law passes I can go to NJ and carry my gun anywhere NJ law permits it’s CCW permit holders to carry their guns. Without the law I cannot take my gun into NJ without great risk.

The legislation does not give the federal government any control over issuing licenses. That control rests with the individual states. The legislation simply forces the all states to recognize my PA license to carry firearms. I do not see a downside to that.

If your concerns were well founded the NRA would not only not be supporting passage it would be opposing it.

 

[Arik]

I suppose it is me but you are not making sense to me. If The law passes I can go to NJ and carry my gun anywhere NJ law permits it’s CCW permit holders to carry their guns. Without the law I cannot take my gun into NJ without great risk.

The legislation does not give the federal government any control over issuing licenses. That control rests with the individual states. The legislation simply forces the all states to recognize my PA license to carry firearms. I do not see a downside to that.

If your concerns were well founded the NRA would not only not be supporting passage it would be opposing it.

If I read your previous statement correctly I would have to honor NJ laws by carrying what is considered legal in NJ. However, I don't own much of anything that's considered legal in NJ. I can't carry my ammo there. I also can't carry my mags there. I'm not the guys who's interested in changing up his carry gun just because. I carry the same gun all day, all year for the last decade. It's what I know, it's what works. I don't want to carry a G17 today and a Shield tomorrow and a revolver the day after....

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[richardw]

Richard, I'm in SE Pa too. I go to Jersey often... usually work related. As of right now I leave my gun behind. If this passes and I have to honor NJ laws I still have to leave my gun behind. I don't carry what's considered legal in NJ. I would either have to carry a different gun or carry extra neutered mags and extra box of fmj ammo. Neither of which I want to do. NY is even worse. While I don't go there often I do go there. I can't even carry neutered mags because even those are not legal.

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What kind of gun do you carry that would be illegal in NJ? What is a an extra neutered magazine? I have to research the NJ law. Then I will reply in greater detail. But assuming you are correct, today you cannot carry any gun in NJ. The legislation would allow you to carry some gun in NJ.

 

[Arik]

What kind of gun do you carry that would be illegal in NJ? What is a an extra neutered magazine? I have to research the NJ law. Then I will reply in greater detail.

By neutered I simply mean mags that are altered to hold less ammo then what they were originally designed for. For instance a G17 holds 17 rounds but they also make the same mag in 10 rounds to meet legal requirements of certain states.

The guns themselves are not illegal but the mags can be (depending on how much they hold). And hollow point ammo is as well...in a weird way. Not illegal to own but not legal to carry.

This means I would need to carry extra mags that physically hold less ammo along with different ammo. FMJ instead of hollow points

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[steelslaver]

Arik does make a good point, although every state would have to honor my permit I would still be subject to their restrictions while in their state. So, if a state restricts the use of magazines over say 10 rounds, while in that state I would not be all0wed to carry those. Some states restrict you to the guns listed on your permit. My permit allows me to carry what I want, if I am resttricted to their rules while in their state none of my guns would be legal because they are not listed. If I carry a type of gun not listed on Californias roster am I legal???

Lots of thing will need to shake out and unless you have a good attorney in your pocket you don't want to be the one they use to shake them out. My wife is an attorney and if there is one thing I have learned from her its that the law is NEVER EVER as simple as just what the law says.

Lots of people have spend time in jail to be released once the charge was found to be illegal under federal law. Jail is never fun even if your eventually found innocent. Court, prosecutor. LEO don't even have to say sorry upon your release. Plus, you have to cover all you court and attorney fees even if your proven innocent. Attorneys want their $$$ up front. After the case is over you don't need them anymore and they know this before it starts.

 

[Ozark Marine]

I don't trust the feds PERIOD.
CCW or open carry rules and regulations is a states issue.
As for the NRA they are bending to the anti-gunners.
It's not your grand dads NRA.

 

[oneounceload]

And you can also bet that those states will pass even further restrictions about what and where you can carry to make it almost impossible anyway.

 

[Arik]

And you can also bet that those states will pass even further restrictions about what and where you can carry to make it almost impossible anyway.

That's a possibility too. You can carry but not in any store, office or building. Basically you're good as long as you just drive around

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[ChattanoogaPhil]

If your concerns were well founded the NRA would not only not be supporting passage it would be opposing it.

I am at odds with some things the NRA supports. Every time Wayne LaPierre says the NRA supports NICS it makes me vomit. After Sandy Hook, I was totally against the NRA's idea of setting up Federally funded armed security guards at all schools across the nation. Sorry, but just because the NRA says so don't work for me.

To the point... The disparities among licensing and qualifications are so dramatically different across the nation that it will ultimately result in an effort to create federal licensing and training standards. That's the problem. Doesn't matter what the bill says today.

 

[jrclen]

To many gun owners helped the anti gun people defeat the last reciprocity efforts. We can't make that mistake again. The bill forces us to obey the carry laws of each state. How is that a federal take over of gun laws? Just my opinion.

 

[richardw]

Below is the language of the passed House Act. Please not that it deals with magazine capacity and type of ammo. I hope this sets some of your minds at ease because the mag capacity and type of ammo that you carry cannot be regulated by the State visited, such as when I, a PA resident visits NJ.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.[/I QUOTE]

Now “any” means ANY.

 

[Arik]

The one condition is that the permit holder must follow the concealed carry laws of the state so completed to honor. .

mag capacity and type of ammo that you carry cannot be regulated by the State visited, .

(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.[/I QUOTE]

Now “any” means ANY.

Can't have it both ways. You either follow the laws of the state you traveled to or those laws don't exist.

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[richardw]

I am odds with things the NRA supports. Every time Wayne LaPierre says the NRA supports NICS it makes me vomit. I was totally against the NRAs idea of setting up Federally funded armed security guards at all schools across the nation. Sorry, but just because the NRA says so don't work for me.

To the point... The disparities among licensing and qualifications are so dramatically different across the nation that it will ultimately result in an effort to create federal standards. That's the problem. Doesn't matter what the bill says today.

Personally I dispise the NRA’s rhetoric and many of its efforts. I am not a member. But I do recognize that it is a diligent advocate supporting 2A as a right. It is Working for the gun manufacturers, and so it would not support legislation that would restrict the opportunity for people to,own or carry guns. So if it saw a possibility of the fears being expressed here it would not support. And if those fears ever became a reality it soul fight the proposals. Like them or not they have controlled gun legislation for decades.

Also I have reviewed the CCW permit requirements of all fifty states. The laws are quite similar except for the justification to carry. The Legislation addresses that by making my license good in any state even if that state would never issue me a permit.

 

[richardw]

Can't have it both ways. You either follow the laws of the state you traveled to or those laws don't exist.

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Actually you can have it both ways if the Legislation is passed by both Houses of Congress. Federal law always supersedes state law.

 

[Arik]

Actually you can have it both ways if the Legislation is passed by both Houses of Congress. Federal law always supersedes state law.

I don't understand how you can follow a states laws and at the same time ignore them.

In one statement you said that the carrier follows the laws of the state he's in and in another statement you said that the carrier doesn't have to. You see what I'm talking about here? I quoted those two posts you made.

Don't take this as an argument m I'm trying to understand what you mean

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