LAPD switch from 6" to 4"

[Andy Taylor]

I know we have some current/former LAPD officers around here who may be able to shed some light on these questions.
Sometime around 1970, give or take, LAPD switched from 6" M14's to 4" M14's. My understanding is that they cut down the 6" guns in the department armory. My question is why? What caused the change? Why change at all? Was it a change in administrators, or did some incident happen that made them feel the 4" was a better option. Once the decission to change was made, why not just grandfather the 6" guns, and make all new purchases 4" guns? The guns were obviously still usable.
Just some things I was pondering as I was watching Adam-12 the other night.

 

[Andy Taylor]

I know we have some current/former LAPD officers around here who may be able to shed some light on these questions.
Sometime around 1970, give or take, LAPD switched from 6" M14's to 4" M14's. My understanding is that they cut down the 6" guns in the department armory. My question is why? What caused the change? Why change at all? Was it a change in administrators, or did some incident happen that made them feel the 4" was a better option. Once the decission to change was made, why not just grandfather the 6" guns, and make all new purchases 4" guns? The guns were obviously still usable.
Just some things I was pondering as I was watching Adam-12 the other night.

 

[feralmerril]

You may be confuseing when they went to DAO with changeing barrel length. Their was a case where a person named deadwhilyer was speeding his pregnant wife to the hospital to have a baby. He got pulled over for speeding, or whatever, everybody was excited, cop had his gun on him evidently cocked for effect, and the guys car lurched forward bumping the officers arm, gun fired and killed him.
They called all the revolvers in and modified them to shoot double action only. Never heard about them changing barrel length. Thought that was optional. By the way, that case is the one that "Made" johnny cockran, as it involved deadwhilyer was black etc. About 1971.

 

[mjr]

Bill Jordan said that the general switch to 4" barrels came about after cops started patrolling in squad cars, rather than on horseback or walking a beat. A 5 or 6" barrel tended to push the butt into your ribs if you were sitting down.

 

[feralmerril]

I had to refresh my memory after I made my first post. It happened in 1966 not 1971.
http://www.blackpressusa.com/n...nal+News&NewsID=3984

http://findarticles.com/p/arti..._16_107/ai_n15691091

 

[feralmerril]

Here is a good article that answers your original question.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/...y_C/Guns+of+the+LAPD

 

[Farmer17]

Some departments issued the low slung swivel holster which allowed the hoster to rotate when you sat down. I know LAPD also had the weird "clam-shell" holsters so the long barrels didn't take as long to quick draw and "clear leather". I don't know when or why they changed to the 4", but I bet there where some cops that could REALLY shoot good with those K-38s!

 

[feralmerril]

My best friends brother, Randy Becker, hired in to LAPD in 1965, or 1966. He died last year and had JUST retired, one of the oldest on the force. He was still allowed to carry his S&W revolver. He was on the bomb squad almost forever.
I once had one of those swivle holsters break on me. I never trusted them after that.

 

[feralmerril]

I still have one of those clamshells. But I was always a little afraid to wear it. I dont think I really did. Looks to me that you could lean up against a knob, nail or something and lose your gun. It only takes once. They are a trick outfit. Think I bought it out of curiosity.

 

[JayCeeNC]

In case you've never seen one, this is a 6" Model 14-1 with Safety Speed "clamshell" holster:

 

[perpster]

Originally posted by feralmerril:
My best friends brother, Randy Becker, hired in to LAPD in 1965, or 1966. He died last year and had JUST retired, one of the oldest on the force. He was still allowed to carry his S&W revolver. He was on the bomb squad almost forever.

Sorry to hear that. It seems to happen often that way with guys who stay on for a very long time.

 

[hoglaw]

Posted 07 March 2009 12:52 PM Hide Post
I still have one of those clamshells. But I was always a little afraid to wear it. I dont think I really did. Looks to me that you could lean up against a knob, nail or something and lose your gun. It only takes once. They are a trick outfit. Think I bought it out of curiosity.

I used one of those for years and loved it. Nothing faster. The only problem was that it really took two hands to ensure closure. A little bit of a problem if you were fighting a suspect.

 

[SG-688]

Jack Harper, "LAPD – All Purpose Firepower", July, 1970 Guns & Ammo.

...Along with standardization of technique has come fairly complete standardization of duty revolvers. Unless an officer has had his 6-inch pistol for over two years, he must soon turn it in on a 4-inch job.
On the other end of the scale, no officer - even plainclothes detectives or those uniformed men who
are off-duty - may carry a 2-inch gun. Generally, this is to insure that an officer qualifies with, and carries, only one gun.

The 4-inch barrelled revolver is thought to be the best compromise for power, accuracy and concealability. The LAPD Academy has been issuing the 4-inch S&W Combat Masterpiece (I think that’s a mistake – should be 6-inch K-38) for some years now, although there is a choice of other' Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers on the "approved" list.

Recently, as an experiment leading up to the full changeover to double-action shooting, one class of the LAPD Academy had all of its revolvers issued double-action only. The men had some initial difficulty but soon caught up with the qualification schedule.

Observing qualification on the combat range included watching some 20-year veterans. This group have only recently been made to continue regular qualification, and while they swung their 6-inch K-38s and Colt Officers Models with ease, there were some hits pulled into the shoulders of the silhouettes, on
double action.

On the question of loads, it's hard to avoid the .38 Special Versus Everything Else controversy. The duty load now recommended by the LAPD range officers is the Remington .38 HighVelocity 158-grain round-nose leadbullet cartridge. In a 4-inch barrel, this load gives the regulation 950 fps thought desirable for urban police use.

Many range officers at the Academy have expressed a preference for a brand of .38 Special ammo that offers a full-weight, round-nose bullet with a higher velocity and a hollow point. Tests showed, to their satisfaction, that the round is more effective for police purposes. Somewhere along the line, the word came back down, "no dum-dum bullets – bad public relations!"

 

[M28]

Interesting that the Model 68 was issued with a six inch barrel.

Brian~

 

[Andy Taylor]

Feral and SG- thanks for the articles, both very enlightening. I hadn't realized that when the uniformed guys went from 6" to 4" the detectives and the like went from 2" to 4" to have everyone standardized.

 

[SG-688]

That was the plan; don't know that they succeded.

Even the Illinois State Police, with that being one rationale for the M-39, couldn't make the no-snubby rule stick.

 

[GLV]

I believe Illinois had a 'must carry off duty' until shortly after they switched to the 39. My B-I-L went on in mid 50s with a 6" Python, and carried a small revolver off duty.

 

[mjr]

Back in 1967, with the Illinois State Police began switching to the Model 39, the idea was that it was the only gun officers could carry, on duty or off, apparently because too many officers couldn't qualify with the 2" revolvers most carried off-duty.