As long as you're not wearing a $5 nylon holster you should be ok. 
Leaving a shooting scene under LEO guard!!
- Thread starter NYlakesider
- Start date
Do what you're told to the best of your ability, follow the law about notifying LEO's that you're carrying if you end up in a situation where you have to, don't try to make an extended explanation about why you can't assume a particular position (you'll only end up in that position faster), and most of all, be as polite, cooperative, and nonconfrontational as possible. In an active shooter mass evacuation, you don't get a pre prone position medical exam, and there's no holding area for people that can't comply with directions . . .
Last edited:
Doug M.
Member
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM :
...
For the Officers responding here; have your Departments developed protocols for you to follow? Or is there "a gap" in your training..... that could leave you making it up as you go... and possibly be left hanging in the wind by your command/political structure. A lawyer representing his/her client; would have a duty to his client, to exploit a perceived training gap.
*
Control of a scene is control of a scene. Control of a person is control of a person, and how that is done is driven (in simple terms) by the nature of the event and the actions of the suspect. As noted above, this whole "deescalation" concept is not sound as a matter of both law and tactics. Cops always get to prevail; always get to control the matter; always get to use more force than the suspect - in other words, "escalate". SUSPECTS are mandated by both Constitutional case law and statutory law to comply - they have to deescalate.
Departments are developing (should have been long done by now) training to deal with the lawful carry of firearms, but some have been dumb. This is something that should be addressed by BRUTAL discipline of command personnel, but rarely is. Remember that in a circumstance such as being discussed here, in which there has allegedly or actually been unlawful violence, the amount of control that will be "reasonable", the Constitutional test for a seizure under the 4th Amendment is pretty high, and likely to be foreign to decent people. That doesn't make it wrong.
I also consider the context. I am almost never without at least one gun. I am legal in doing so. What I expect for a response in Washington, at least until the moonbats and apologists for the criminal feral finish destroying the state, is not what I expect in CA (a place I only go to visit/assist a friend with a legal matter and to visit my favorite dog rescue). CA and IL are bad enough. If for some reason I completely lost my mind and went to some really awful place like MD or NJ, I am sure the context would be even different.
...
For the Officers responding here; have your Departments developed protocols for you to follow? Or is there "a gap" in your training..... that could leave you making it up as you go... and possibly be left hanging in the wind by your command/political structure. A lawyer representing his/her client; would have a duty to his client, to exploit a perceived training gap.
*
Control of a scene is control of a scene. Control of a person is control of a person, and how that is done is driven (in simple terms) by the nature of the event and the actions of the suspect. As noted above, this whole "deescalation" concept is not sound as a matter of both law and tactics. Cops always get to prevail; always get to control the matter; always get to use more force than the suspect - in other words, "escalate". SUSPECTS are mandated by both Constitutional case law and statutory law to comply - they have to deescalate.
Departments are developing (should have been long done by now) training to deal with the lawful carry of firearms, but some have been dumb. This is something that should be addressed by BRUTAL discipline of command personnel, but rarely is. Remember that in a circumstance such as being discussed here, in which there has allegedly or actually been unlawful violence, the amount of control that will be "reasonable", the Constitutional test for a seizure under the 4th Amendment is pretty high, and likely to be foreign to decent people. That doesn't make it wrong.
I also consider the context. I am almost never without at least one gun. I am legal in doing so. What I expect for a response in Washington, at least until the moonbats and apologists for the criminal feral finish destroying the state, is not what I expect in CA (a place I only go to visit/assist a friend with a legal matter and to visit my favorite dog rescue). CA and IL are bad enough. If for some reason I completely lost my mind and went to some really awful place like MD or NJ, I am sure the context would be even different.
I think NYLakesiders original post was directed at my question in the first paragraph above....... I know it's the basic question I would like to see answered..... to make yours and my life safer!
From the response so far ..... it seems to be version of "don't ask don't tell" keep your mouth shut and do what you are told is the best course of action......don't stir the pot by volunteering information.
Our only duty in Pa. is to "produce the license for inspection" "upon lawful demand of an LEO"
Never heard if all +3000 of the students and teachers in Fla. were being patted down or stripped searched......doubt it or it would have made the news.......
heck the Shooter in Fla..... walked away from a "Active Shooter" scene .....dropped his rifle in the school...... but did he have another weapon (hand gun,knife or a sawed-off shotgun from Dicks
) when he was arrested? He was reported to have multiple weapons at home.
Last edited:
flyboydanmke
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2017
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 4
Whatever the laws are in your state that specify if/when you need to inform a LEO. In my state I only have to admit to it if they ask about weapons. If you're about to get searched it would be wise to advise so you don't startle them and end up being thrown to the ground.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I'm curious, every response that I've read here assumes a situation where the concealed carrier is holstered and just going out with the crowd. So, I have to ask, why are we carrying? I mean, in every one of the recent situations, there was only one shooter or if there were two, they weren't well coordinated. Why aren't you dealing with the situation?
I mean, we're talking like we're just there with our guns in the holster doing nothing. In all of these situations we would know what's going on and at least have a clue about where the bad guy is. Deal with him.
I'm the first to tell people to take care of themselves first and not to get into a situation you don't have to. But here we have a known situation where you might be the difference between a couple people being injured and many being killed.
If you're dealing with the bad guy, you'll have your gun out.
I find this a far more likely situation for a concealed carrier than being in a crowd of people being escorted out.
I mean, we're talking like we're just there with our guns in the holster doing nothing. In all of these situations we would know what's going on and at least have a clue about where the bad guy is. Deal with him.
I'm the first to tell people to take care of themselves first and not to get into a situation you don't have to. But here we have a known situation where you might be the difference between a couple people being injured and many being killed.
If you're dealing with the bad guy, you'll have your gun out.
I find this a far more likely situation for a concealed carrier than being in a crowd of people being escorted out.
Because if it doesn't impact me or mine, I'm out. Shooter tries to keep me or mine from leaving and living, he suffers the consequences. Otherwise, I'm not here to save the world. All that "I'm gonna be the hero" stuff is fine, until somebody gets to tell my wife and family why I'm not coming home . . .
Last edited:
cbore
Member
During my Narcotic undercover days I looked and dressed pretty rough. However I had a weapon and badge on sometimes. Twice I was "leveled down on" by other LEO that didn't know my identity. It is a scary feeling.
One time as I checked out a vehicle passenger side with a Remington 870 a backup officer arrived and only saw my long hair and a shotgun. He shouted drop the gun which I did immediately. Always regreted the pavement scratch on my shotgun but glad I didn't get shot.
All I can say is stay calm and do what the Officer says. He/she is in a very stressful sitution at the moment
One time as I checked out a vehicle passenger side with a Remington 870 a backup officer arrived and only saw my long hair and a shotgun. He shouted drop the gun which I did immediately. Always regreted the pavement scratch on my shotgun but glad I didn't get shot.
All I can say is stay calm and do what the Officer says. He/she is in a very stressful sitution at the moment
Amen, my brother.
Add a language barrier and/or mixed agency to that and, yes sir, it can get very tight.
Last edited:
Marshal Tom
Member
So, carrying a Hi-Point and placing it in a students backpack before exiting would not be an option????
OP
As the OP I was asking about what would happen if you were carrying and were escorted out of a building after/during a real bad event. Things are morphing a bit here!
I made it clear you were not involved. Lets say it was a shopping center with shots fired, you might be down a few stores from the incident. The place went into lock-down and when the cops came you were escorted out. (Hands up single file, like you see on TV.) I asked what would happen if your gun printed or for some reason you were patted down.
For me if not printing or not patted down I would leave if allowed to. If I was discovered to have a weapon I would expect some problems till it was proved out I was a "Good Guy" and had nothing to do with the incident.
If I was going to be wanded or patted down after a serious incident went down I would put my hands as far as I could from my weapon (behind neck fingers interlocked) and gently inform the officer I have a legal weapon (not use the word gun) on me, your in charge, and I'm not moving til told to. After that its up to the cop/s and rest assured I will comply at a 100%
I made it clear you were not involved. Lets say it was a shopping center with shots fired, you might be down a few stores from the incident. The place went into lock-down and when the cops came you were escorted out. (Hands up single file, like you see on TV.) I asked what would happen if your gun printed or for some reason you were patted down.
For me if not printing or not patted down I would leave if allowed to. If I was discovered to have a weapon I would expect some problems till it was proved out I was a "Good Guy" and had nothing to do with the incident.
If I was going to be wanded or patted down after a serious incident went down I would put my hands as far as I could from my weapon (behind neck fingers interlocked) and gently inform the officer I have a legal weapon (not use the word gun) on me, your in charge, and I'm not moving til told to. After that its up to the cop/s and rest assured I will comply at a 100%
Dvan34
Member
Other Concealed Carriers on Site
An excellent point that hadn't been considered. Which is why we must be careful engaging in the first place. Secondly, even if the police declare the 'perp' is under control or 'disengaged', there is always the possibility of a second or third suspect still on site. They can't take a chance that there were no other shooters on site. There always the threat of multi- shooters that participated. We have to be certain that LEOs aren't already engaged in the first place before we engage.
An excellent point that hadn't been considered. Which is why we must be careful engaging in the first place. Secondly, even if the police declare the 'perp' is under control or 'disengaged', there is always the possibility of a second or third suspect still on site. They can't take a chance that there were no other shooters on site. There always the threat of multi- shooters that participated. We have to be certain that LEOs aren't already engaged in the first place before we engage.
Assuming an opportunity to do so, one may be better off informing the first available LEO that one is carrying. I say that only because the thought of one of the terrified bystanders screaming "that guy has a gun" is rife with extremely negative possible outcomes.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
If I had the misfortune to be in this situation, and hadn't had any reason to draw my stuff, I would walk out with my hands up and head to my car.
Yeah, what he said.
Sharing this concern, several other retired LEOs and I started carrying "retired" badges clipped to our belts or shoulder rigs, near our weapons, just for such an occasion. Not full proof, but it will hopefully make them look twice.
A good reason to be sure you aren't printing or showing the gun with your hands in such a position.
If you are cooperative and don't make sudden moves, I highly doubt you will become shot by a responding officer during a pat down. They know people CCW.
If you are cooperative and don't make sudden moves, I highly doubt you will become shot by a responding officer during a pat down. They know people CCW.
keith44spl
Member
I've got a 'Hidden Agenda' all season jacket/windbreaker with pull down panels..........
I guess I'll go back to wearing it when in town.
.
I guess I'll go back to wearing it when in town.
.
Last edited:
cjtraining
US Veteran
I would have hands up, tell the officers I am a retired police officer and I have a revolver in my right pocket.
Similar threads
- Locked
