Little Help with the Glock and M&P "problems"

[FrankHenryLee]

Hey folks, hope your day's going well. I'm an owner of a G19 and M&P 40 FS, both purchased in early 2013. Like a lot of folks, I'd like to move to one platform or the other for training consistency. Main purpose is for carry so the M&Pc would be the better comparison to my 19, but I don't have one... yet.

I tend to shoot more consistently accurate with the M&P, but the Glock isn't far behind and I like the extra capacity.
At 20' the 19 groups much tighter, but I have strange flyers that I can't really account for. The M&P is not nearly as tight, but I have no flyers. At more distance, I'm better with the M&P. I feel better about making an accurate shot with the M&P because of the stray shots I make with the 19 about 1 in 5 shots. I know this is a training issue, but I feel like if I'm already more consistent with the M&P then why not go that route? (extra capacity and perceived better reliability of G19 keep my picking it back up)

So I figure the M&P's smaller grip must be helping, so why not a gen4?

The problem is that I keep reading about the Glock 9mm extraction issues(perceived reliability down the tubes) and the M&P 9mm accuracy issues(perceived better accuracy in my hands down the tubes).

Both my M&P and G19 have ran flawlessly outside of some out of spec range ammo and like I said earlier good accuracy out of my 40 M&P.

Now here's the hard part. I'm stuck between grabbing a G19 gen4 and a M&P9c and the above problems have me concerned about whether I should just wait it out. Can anyone elaborate on the recent versions of either one? How common are these problems? Does it effect all of them or are we talking about 1 in 10? Anyway, tough questions to answer, but just thought I'd throw it out there and see what ya'll had to say.

Thanks for your time!

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

little help with the Glock & M&P problems

I would look at other options than those two. The Glock Gen 4 are not as good as the previous generation guns. The M&P is a fine gun but there are better options out there. I tend to lean toward the Springfield XD, in the four inch version, which I have owned for a number of years and carry that gun every day. The gun is a better built gun with more safeties and runs flawlessly. I have more than 6,000 rounds out of it and it has never malfunctioned. I still have no loose breech and the locking block is steel on steel with four insert points to take the recoil. If you purchase a Glock and S&W M&P new out of the box, will find some loose breech which will get worse as you shoot. Also, the Sig .357 is becoming very popular with law enforcement. The Virginia State Police, Secret Service and U.S. Marshall are all switching to that semi auto. The Gun is a little more money but they build a well constructed gun. Plenty of options in today's market, just do the research and see how each one stands up to wear and tear and steel on steel. Sure the plastics are lighter but in the long run the steel will outlast the lighter made guns. Also, the recoil is minimized with a heavier made gun. Just passing along my experience and research on what is out there.

Nick

 

[AGoyette]

A lot of people report that they love their M&P compacts. I find that my 9c is more accurate than my 5" Pros. You need to rent different guns and see which one is the best one for you for what you want.

 

[colt_saa]

Welcome to the Forum

You already own something that works for your intended purpose, you are good with it and you want to add a second one in an alternate caliber

You only issue is capacity? Easy, carry full size M&P magazines in your compact or as your reload. X-grip makes a rubber spacer to fill the gap.

As to failures, remember that people with no problems do not go on the internet yelling and screaming about how good their firearm is working. You only hear about the lemons and you hear about the same lemon on 4 or 6 or 10 different websites.

A failure rate of 1 in 10 would be a catastrophic screw up. It is no where near that high or it would be on the nightly news.

 

[Watchdog]

At 20' the 19 groups much tighter, but I have strange flyers that I can't really account for.

My first question is: How bad are the flyers? Are they off just 2-3 inches, or way outside the norm? Unless you're shooting competition, I wouldn't worry about a 3-inch flyer. At least I don't. And at only 20 feet? I tend to think it isn't the gun's fault, no offense.

I personally think you might be attaching too much importance to the flyers, and it's affecting your shooting with the 19. By that, I mean you might have lost some confidence, and are now trying too hard to stop the flyers, but you're only making it worse. Start shooting the 19 more and forget about how much "better" you do with the other pistol. Besides, you've already admitted you think it's a training question, so work on your training.

So I figure the M&P's smaller grip must be helping, so why not a gen4? The problem is that I keep reading about the Glock 9mm extraction issues(perceived reliability down the tubes) and the M&P 9mm accuracy issues(perceived better accuracy in my hands down the tubes).

I've never had that problem with Glocks. And I have a 26 Gen4 that's had no problems. Ditto for the 30SF and the 42.

I've had absolutely no experience with any M&P pistol, so I can't even comment on them.

 

[Watchdog]

The Glock Gen 4 are not as good as the previous generation guns.

Why do you say that? "Not as good" in what way? Reliability? Build quality? What? Is that just your opinion?

 

[Arik]

Every gun is going to have problems. Doesn't matter what. Hobby - gunsmith likes XD but there have been plenty of instances where the grip safety locks up preventing the use of the gun along with pins walking out.

The problem with Glocks extractors has been addressed long ago. You are either reading old posts or posts where someone is just talking about that problem. Aside from that the problem was never related to reliability. The guns still functioned fine, they just threw brass to the face but they still functioned.

M&P did have some barrel problems but that too has been addressed long ago. Along with that they also had extraction problems on some models. I had such a model. The extractors would jump the rim and leave the case in. This too has been fixed. My issue was back in 2010.

Neither one is a bad choice. I would go with which one you feel more comfortable with. For me its Glocks. For others its the M&P or XD

 

[jstanfield103]

One thing you can not compare the G19 to the M&P 9C. The M&P 9C is more comparable to the G26. The M&P to me have a better Grip angle and are guaranteed for life and are every bit as reliable as the Glock are.
The M&P as stated you can use the 17 round FS Mags with the X-grip and take care of the capacity. You can also do this with the Glock and use any of there 9mm magazines.
I prefer the USA made life time warranty. I take care of my own.

 

[Arik]

Glock is making a lot of their guns in the US as well. In Smyrna GA.

While they don't state a lifetime warranty my experience with Glock service has been nothing short of excellent. The last time I used them they gave me whole new gun for free despite mine being older and rusty (very minor). Got a new gun with new night sights and 5 extract mags. Not bad for sending them a 10 year old gun with some pitting and dead sights

 

[PirateJim]

FrankHenryLee, I obviously don't know what your needs may really be, but since nobody's said it yet I can't resist. If your primary aim is concealed carry, and if you are not a law officer or someone else who needs to intentionally go into harms way, you might want to consider a Shield. I saw that you said capacity was a consideration, but a Shield 9 with 8 or 9 rounds available or a 40 with 7 or 8 will solve most of the likely self defense scenarios I can think up. And the Shield is lighter and thinner making it easy to carry all the time. The gun you've actually got with you, and all that....

Beyond that, pick one, you won't go wrong with a Glock or S&W.
Good luck.

 

[FrankHenryLee]

I'll admit, I'm not a great shot, but have improved since I've started shooting more. Not blaming the 19 on the flyers, it groups 1"-2", but then whoa, how'd I miss it by 3"-5", left and high usually, no doubt my fault. When I rent the M&Pc I can get 2"-3" groups, but rarely have any flyers. The only thing I can come up with is the difference in the way they fit my hand. I haven't been able to prove it yet, but the inside of my first knuckle on my trigger finger rubs the frame on the Glock right behind the trigger opening. I'm also able to reach the trigger much better on the M&P. Maybe, I'll just go ahead and get it. I don't think my wife would know the difference as long as I don't have them all out at the same time. Lol!

 

[Momokahn]

Glock 17 Gen 4 here...issues ? Don't tell my gun that. I think it would shoot Kingsford Charcoal if there were primers in the briquettes. Accurate? Yep it is that too. My M&P 9 FS. More accurate than me at 50 feet, stock trigger and I even hate the night sights that came on it. Just imagine if I change out the sights and actually liked the sights on it.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'll admit, I'm not a great shot, but have improved since I've started shooting more. Not blaming the 19 on the flyers, it groups 1"-2", but then whoa, how'd I miss it by 3"-5", left and high usually, no doubt my fault. When I rent the M&Pc I can get 2"-3" groups, but rarely have any flyers. The only thing I can come up with is the difference in the way they fit my hand. I haven't been able to prove it yet, but the inside of my first knuckle on my trigger finger rubs the frame on the Glock right behind the trigger opening. I'm also able to reach the trigger much better on the M&P. Maybe, I'll just go ahead and get it. I don't think my wife would know the difference as long as I don't have them all out at the same time. Lol!

Don't give up yet. Front sight, press, and follow through. One of this biggest mistakes made is not following through after you press the trigger.

If you haven't yet, bench rest the gun and see what kind of results you get.

And the statement about Gen 4 Glock is BS. Blanket statements like that are irresponsible and misleading. Have two Gen 4 Glock pistols. They run like sewing machines. Same for my M&P 9.

As far as the M&P 9C, excellent little gun.

 

[Watchdog]

And the statement about Gen 4 Glock is BS. Blanket statements like that are irresponsible and misleading.

I am smiling. I didn't want to come right out and say that.

But since you did...

 

[Watchdog]

Glock is making a lot of their guns in the US as well. In Smyrna GA.

My understanding has always been that most Glocks are manufactured in Austria, but assembled in Smyrna.

I see posts/comments (rumors?) on other forums that Glock is making full size frames in Smyrna, but no one really seems to know for sure.

But...I'm looking at my G42 right now, and it's right there on the left side of the slide..."USA". And Glock firmly states on their website that the 42 is made in the U.S.A.

 

[Magload]

Friends don't let friends buy Glock. Don

 

[Protected One]

The current issue of Combat Handguns (the military version) has a comparrison of S&W and Glock full size handguns. The author is a special forces operator (SEAL I think). His insights maybe of value to you. He openned my eyes to a few things.

 

[Watchdog]

The current issue of Combat Handguns (the military version) has a comparrison of S&W and Glock full size handguns.

Is that online? If so, I haven't found it yet. Do you have a link?

 

[Protected One]

Is that online? If so, I haven't found it yet. Do you have a link?

Don't know if it's online. I saw it in a store.

 

[Rastoff]

Why do you say that? "Not as good" in what way? Reliability? Build quality? What? Is that just your opinion?

When the Gen 4 came out there were a lot of failure-to-feed issues. Of course, as with any gun, the term "a lot" is subjective. I suspect it was overblown just like many of the problems we've heard about with M&Ps.

Go to any gun forum and you'll find thread after thread of people with problems. In all of those threads you'll find many people who respond with, "I've never had any trouble with my gun."

The truth is, mechanical devices have problems sometimes. No manufacturer is perfect and they will put out defective products sometimes. As far as reliability is concerned, my personal experience is that both Glocks and M&Ps are good guns with the M&P being only slightly more reliable. What continues to surprise me is that the 1911 is more reliable that all of them. This is just my personal experience. I've seen hundreds of these guns shot by hundreds of people. Even so, I'm am just one person and there are thousands and thousands of guns out there so, my experience is not exhaustive, it's just what I've seen.

Having said all that, based on the OP, I'd say stick with the M&P.