M&P 15-22 Cycling (or lack there of)

[42Adam]

Greetings SW folks, first post here. I tried just reading the answer but the thread about the supposed cycling issue sounded more like a trigger or possibly ammunition issue. I indeed am having a cycling issue. I also noticed that those two rails that slide into the bolt are not sliding like the used to, in fact they are pretty rough. It's been a while since I last shot, maybe since Fall (I'm an outdoorsy shooter). Here's some additional details, since they may help. Last time I shot I was using a JP Spring kit and that is when the cycling issue started, so I gave the rifle the Winter off and swapped out the springs yesterday and while giving it a good clean and lube I noticed that it slides pretty rough.

I had no idea what I was getting into when I got this rifle, I wanted a standard AR-15 something I am very familiar with, but with the cost of ammunition and my love of shooting I went with the best .22LR AR out there. I remember my first time seeing the buffer bolt, I was just staring at it for about five minutes, thinking, huh that's how they sell them so inexpensive; however it could also be related to the lack of back pressure created by a .22LR and the need to cycle properly.

Thanks in advance for the support and help.

 

[JaPes]

Greetings SW folks, first post here.

Hello & welcome aboard!

I indeed am having a cycling issue. I also noticed that those two rails that slide into the bolt are not sliding like the used to, in fact they are pretty rough. It's been a while since I last shot, maybe since Fall (I'm an outdoorsy shooter).

Field strip your 15-22. Use whatever cleaner you want, and wipe down the bolt, rails, and spring. Then wipe it down with a rag moistened with your choice of lubricant. I use Breakfree CLP so I can get both steps done at once.

I'll then put a drop of oil on the bolt rails, push the bolt back and forth, then wipe off the excess.

Inspect the upper receiver. Wipe out any crud you may find.

Here's some additional details, since they may help. Last time I shot I was using a JP Spring kit and that is when the cycling issue started, so I gave the rifle the Winter off and swapped out the springs yesterday.

Mine had issues the JP Enterprises yellow reduced power spring kit too. I swapped back in the stock springs, and all is well again.

and while giving it a good clean and lube I noticed that it slides pretty rough.

If a quick wipe/clean & lube doesn't cure the resistance you feel, detail strip & clean the bolt. That way you can get the rails and channels they ride in 100% clean of any fouling.

I had no idea what I was getting into when I got this rifle, I wanted a standard AR-15 something I am very familiar with, but with the cost of ammunition and my love of shooting I went with the best .22LR AR out there. I remember my first time seeing the buffer bolt, I was just staring at it for about five minutes, thinking, huh that's how they sell them so inexpensive; however it could also be related to the lack of back pressure created by a .22LR and the need to cycle properly.

Yup. Direct blow back action + the lower power .22lr generates is the result you see there. The 15-22 isn't "cheap" by any means.

You want to see cheap? Here's the innards of a Umarex Colt M4 Ops, a competitor of the S&W M&P 15-22.

Imagine a .22lr where the barrel is held in place by outward tension provided by screwing down the flash hider. A bolt release paddle that is decoration only. A bolt that can not be removed (at least easily) for routine cleaning.

 

[42Adam]

JaPes, awesome reply! Thank you for the welcome. I use nothing but Hoppe's Elite, which is pretty good stuff from my understanding; I use their cleaner and oil. I even took out one of my many "acquired" Army field stripping kits and put the brass brush in my power drill just to work out any crud that might be on the rails or grooves, and it's still rough. Is it possible it just needs some range time with stock springs? I think those JP springs are made for 5.56 and up AR platforms, and the lack of power just doesn't work well with those springs. Last night I also cycled a full magazine just to get an idea what would happen and on about 5-10 rounds the bolt just wouldn't ride forward enough to chamber the next round, a good slap in the rear (magazine) got the round chambered, but I'd hate to have to do that 5-10 times per magazine while shooting.

Oh these M&P 15-22's are the best .22 only AR platform on the market, those pricey AR platforms with .22LR kits (that cost more than a M&P 15-22) don't count. As for those Uramex "Colt M4's" those are just a step above BB guns; but not pellet guns. I was careful to word it as "inexpensive", because believe me I am very satisfied with the quality of my rifle. S&W are my go to brand when it comes to firearms, they have awesome quality control, from my M&P .40 S&W Pro Series to my M&P 15-22; it's hard to come by that kind of workmanship these days.

BTW, that Uramex just looks plain dangerous. I'm surprised they're legal.

 

[GaBoy25]

JaPes, awesome reply! Thank you for the welcome. I use nothing but Hoppe's Elite, which is pretty good stuff from my understanding; I use their cleaner and oil. I even took out one of my many "acquired" Army field stripping kits and put the brass brush in my power drill just to work out any crud that might be on the rails or grooves, and it's still rough. Is it possible it just needs some range time with stock springs? I think those JP springs are made for 5.56 and up AR platforms, and the lack of power just doesn't work well with those springs. Last night I also cycled a full magazine just to get an idea what would happen and on about 5-10 rounds the bolt just wouldn't ride forward enough to chamber the next round, a good slap in the rear (magazine) got the round chambered, but I'd hate to have to do that 5-10 times per magazine while shooting.

Oh these M&P 15-22's are the best .22 ONLY AR platform on the market, those pricey AR platforms with .22LR kits (that cost more than a M&P 15-22) don't count. As for those Uramex "Colt M4's" those are just a step above BB guns; but not pellet guns. I was careful to word it as "inexpensive", because believe me I am very satisfied with my quality of the rifle. S&W are my go to brand when it comes to firearms, they have awesome quality control, from my M&P .40 S&W Pro Series to my M&P 15-22; it's hard to come by that kind of workmanship these days.

BTW, that Uramex just looks plain dangerous. I'm surprised they're legal.

Good post.
And to the op. I've fired 4,300 rounds in my m&p 15-22 in a little over a month. I'll have 6,000 through her by weekends end. ALMOST ALL WITH A SLIDEFIRE STOCK. I don't let my barrel cool down and I beat the hell out of the gun.

I can't believe I've made it this far on the original extractor ect. The QUALITY is there. Especially where it counts.

 

[42Adam]

Oh these guns are the real deal, which means they can take a beating; I'm surprised I haven't seen a torture test yet. I thought about buying the slide fire, but then learned that the low recoil .22 LR would require an Timney trigger for it to really perform full auto, and full auto just isn't really my thing. I've learned in the Army it is only useful when you are suppressing, and the targets I shoot at don't shoot back thank God, so I'm good with one shot one kill, and at most a double tap mentality.

 

[Basic]

Imagine a .22lr where the barrel is held in place by outward tension provided by screwing down the flash hider.

Im not understanding this. Cant picture what your sayin, I guess.
The Cage being screwed on holds the barrel down?
& the pictures?? the AR is a true 223, is it not?

 

[42Adam]

Im not understanding this. Cant picture what your sayin, I guess.
The Cage being screwed on holds the barrel down?
& the pictures?? the AR is a true 223, is it not?

Sir, that is no 223, that is a cheap knock off. I've fired a real Colt 5.56, I do it for a living as matter of fact, and I'd say that Uramex "Colt" is a disgrace to the pony itself.

 

[JaPes]

Im not understanding this. Cant picture what your sayin, I guess.
The Cage being screwed on holds the barrel down?
& the pictures?? the AR is a true 223, is it not?

The Umarex Colt M4 is a .22lr AR look-alike. It looks like an AR on the outside, but there is nothing derived from the AR inside.

The Umarex Colt M4's barrel and action sit within a pretty shroud. When inserted into the shroud, the bird cage acts like a nut. When screwed down, it tugs on the barrel toward the muzzle.

This is the only thing that keeps that barrel in place. You have to loosen the bird cage to separate the upper & lower.

Remember I said that the bolt can't be removed during a regular field strip? That means you have to clean muzzle to breach. The bolt doesn't hold open either. So as you're pushing a rod down the muzzle, trying not to slam into the bolt, the bird cage can wiggle loose. Push on the cleaning rod and...

^That's the reason why I became a self-taught Umarex Colt M4 armorer.

 

[Basic]

Wow, that junk!
Iv owned BB guns with better internal design

 

[JaPes]

I even took out one of my many "acquired" Army field stripping kits and put the brass brush in my power drill just to work out any crud that might be on the rails or grooves, and it's still rough.

Chucking a brass brush into a power drill? For a .22lr rifle? The most I've ever had to use was an old medium bristle toothbrush & some Hoppes No.9.

The only time I've done anything that involved chucking a brush into a drill was to get all the lead fouling out of a smooth bore shotgun after a day of shooting slugs.

If you can post a picture of your bolt carrier, it would help. Is the factory finish on the bolt carrier rails worn off? Is it rough?

Is it possible it just needs some range time with stock springs? I think those JP springs are made for 5.56 and up AR platforms, and the lack of power just doesn't work well with those springs.

The JP Enterprises springs are just for the trigger. They lightened the trigger, disconnect, & hammer springs. If anything, the bolt should cycle easier with the reduced power hammer spring because the bolt has less resistance to overcome.

The issue with the JP Enterprises reduced power spring kit is that in some 15-22's, they caused light strikes on the .22lr cartridge rim. It takes a pretty stout strike to the rim to set off a .22lr rimfire cartridge.

The JP Enterprises reduced power spring kit works 100% in my .223/5.56 center-fire AR15.

Last night I also cycled a full magazine just to get an idea what would happen and on about 5-10 rounds the bolt just wouldn't ride forward enough to chamber the next round, a good slap in the rear (magazine) got the round chambered, but I'd hate to have to do that 5-10 times per magazine while shooting.

Just to be sure, by cycle you:

1. Pull charging handle.
2. Lock bolt back.
3. Press bolt release paddle.

Just trying to make sure you didn't ride the bolt.

Hitting the magazine? Double check the way the rounds are loaded in the mag. The waxy coating on the tip of some .22lr rounds gunks up the mag. I've had a few .22lr rounds today nose drag in the mag.

Got home, cleaned the mag, and problem solved.

 

[42Adam]

JaPes,

That was my first time going to such extreme lengths, but there was so carbon grit that wouldn't come off with good old elbow. This was also after a very extensive clean and lube, you could say I was out of ideas.

That does make a lot of sense about the trigger springs, I hadn't thought about how the rim fire is ignited. However, I didn't appreciate all the yellow paint chips that tried to stay after the springs were gone.

Well, I didn't catch and release the bolt for every cycle, I actually didn't do it for any cycle. I just pull it back all the way and release, and check to see if the cycling action was smooth and could pick up another round. I use M-22 which are too waxy, but I'll still open up the magazines just to take a look.

 

[photoracer]

JaPes, awesome reply! Thank you for the welcome. I use nothing but Hoppe's Elite, which is pretty good stuff from my understanding; I use their cleaner and oil. I even took out one of my many "acquired" Army field stripping kits and put the brass brush in my power drill just to work out any crud that might be on the rails or grooves, and it's still rough. Is it possible it just needs some range time with stock springs? I think those JP springs are made for 5.56 and up AR platforms, and the lack of power just doesn't work well with those springs. Last night I also cycled a full magazine just to get an idea what would happen and on about 5-10 rounds the bolt just wouldn't ride forward enough to chamber the next round, a good slap in the rear (magazine) got the round chambered, but I'd hate to have to do that 5-10 times per magazine while shooting.

Oh these M&P 15-22's are the best .22 only AR platform on the market, those pricey AR platforms with .22LR kits (that cost more than a M&P 15-22) don't count. As for those Uramex "Colt M4's" those are just a step above BB guns; but not pellet guns. I was careful to word it as "inexpensive", because believe me I am very satisfied with the quality of my rifle. S&W are my go to brand when it comes to firearms, they have awesome quality control, from my M&P .40 S&W Pro Series to my M&P 15-22; it's hard to come by that kind of workmanship these days.

BTW, that Uramex just looks plain dangerous. I'm surprised they're legal.

I don't recommend anything for a .22LR except some kind of synthetic CLP product. Right now I use only 2, Eezox and Militec-1. You do NOT want to use any powder solvent like Hoppe's #9 or you can damage both the chamber and the polymer. .22 LR guns shoot best when they are as dry as you can get by with. As a competition shooter I run a boresnake through the barrel from chamber to crown, clean the powder residue off with the CLP and then only lube the rails the bolt runs on. I use a Geissele Super 3-Gun trigger and I put grease on the proper spots every 2K rounds or so.
I previously used my PC models RRA 2-stage trigger with a set of JP yellow springs and never once had a malfunction that was not caused by dud primers in the ammo.
I even put the JP springs into the S3G to see how it would work and it ran flawlessly for the 2 months I had them in there. Resulting trigger pull was about 1.25# and had no cycling issues or FTFs. I would not hesitate to use that in a PC model for precision shooting. Put the factory S3G springs back in so it would match my multigun AR.
If you want the AR15-22 to cycle 100% do NOT grab it around the magazine, as I have heard issues on that. Also don't wimp it either lock it tight into your shoulder. It is a blowback design so anything you do that keeps the recoil from going totally into the action can cause FTEsand such (on any semiauto 22 LR).

 

[Majorlk]

You do NOT want to use any powder solvent like Hoppe's #9 or you can damage both the chamber and the polymer.

OK, I'll buy the possibility of Hoppe's 9 harming polymer, although it has never affected any of my other polymer-framed firearms, but please explain how it can damage the chamber on a steel barrel? I've used it for years on many firearms and all it has ever done was dissolve the powder residue.

 

[42Adam]

Photoracer,

That was very informative, and I have possibly got a little complacent over my numbing years in the Army.

However, per S&W, Hoppe's 9 Elite is safe to use on polymer weapons. I asked them that before my M&P 40 Pro Series even got to my FFL. I only oil the slides and a inner housing of the bolt since I cannot take it apart to clean it.

Majorlk has a pretty valid question I thought Hoppe's 9 was made for metal. Hoppe's 9 has worked fine for any other of my all metal firearms in the past as well, I only use the Elite stuff on the polymer weapons since they can be picky and start melting or clouding.