Telecaster
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Yet it’s S&W that has financial challenges.
M2.0 Really Challenging Glock?
- Thread starter Horn
- Start date
Yet it’s S&W that has financial challenges.
Philadelphia Patriot
Member
My best friend works for the Philadelphia Police Department. He said the department is doing a presentation on smith and Wesson pistols to the higher ups soon. I know within past year or so the firearms instructors were testing the M&Ps.
I had to edit the above. It sounded like my friend was doing the presentation and that is not true.
I had to edit the above. It sounded like my friend was doing the presentation and that is not true.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
According to the Glock website:
G17
Overall Length- 7.95"
G19
Overall Length- 7.28"
That's more like .67" which is a noticeable amount.
That's overall length. The backstrap "hump" extends farther back on the 17. I'm just referencing slide length.
Arik
Member
How so? Their flagship guns continue to work and provide defense and reliability to officers, soldiers and civilians. It's everything I want in a handgun. How is that a has been? Because they don't do fancy slide designs? When they try to improve that's when problems start. Otherwise I don't care what zig zags they cut into the slide or what they add into the frame so long as it works. If my 20 year old Glock does everything I need it to in a self defense handgun I have no reason to buy a new one or a different brand even
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Good Explanation of The Rest
a lot of new folks to shooting. You did "expose" something about the Glock pistols new to me. So, you "did good".
You most certainly touched some hot buttons. Me? My pistols are all tools. I never loved any I used on duty or off duty other than appreciating them and treated them well.
I had a G26 and found it not to my liking and sold it. I have a G43 and keep it as a "recliner"arm and have other brands in a couple of other locations at home. All work as designed and all blue label
pistols with the same manual of arms.
Thanks again for a really good explanation.
I hope this can end what ever got started from your valued effort.
Stay safe out there.
Poli Viejo
I appreciate different view points. I especially thought you're explanation of what the Ransom rest accomplishes was well put for
a lot of new folks to shooting. You did "expose" something about the Glock pistols new to me. So, you "did good".
You most certainly touched some hot buttons. Me? My pistols are all tools. I never loved any I used on duty or off duty other than appreciating them and treated them well.
I had a G26 and found it not to my liking and sold it. I have a G43 and keep it as a "recliner"arm and have other brands in a couple of other locations at home. All work as designed and all blue label
pistols with the same manual of arms.
Thanks again for a really good explanation.
I hope this can end what ever got started from your valued effort.
Stay safe out there.
Poli Viejo
There is no doubt that there are other choices out there for those who aren't in love with Glocks. The 2.0 is one of those choices. Once Sig gets caught up on the demand for accessories and X change kits for the P 320, there will be more Glock owners considering them. No doubt that Glock has the public name recognition and huge share of the police market. That being said, they really haven't done anything innovative since they came out with the G 17. I owned a Glock 23 and never really got to love it. They are an outstanding pistol; just not my cup of tea. My second plastic gun was a Kahr CM-9 and my third is a Sig P320 Compact. I still have and shoot the last two. No other pistol, including the M&P 2.0 will "kill" the Glock market, but Glock may commit suicide by not keeping up with current innovations offered by other manufacturer. That's what cost them the lucrative military contract, IMHO. One doesn't have to look very far back in firearm manufacturing history to see that Colt put the company on life support, when they solely depended upon the military contracts and spent no time developing innovative products or even producing old designs with high demand.
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It is ironic people are debating the thickness and rigidity of polymer handguns.
10-20 years ago people were saying america is going down hill because our guns were made of plastic and ONLY American made Steel handguns like 1911's were in one man's opinion the best option.
A gun that meets the user's requirements and does so at reasonable cost, high reliability and minimal maintenance cost.
Glocks work for Law enforcement and now parts of US military. Are simple to maintain and don't require returns to the factory but can be fixed by armorers and Glock certified armorers anywhere.
S&W requires return to the factory and limits some parts.
Glock wins. (Note I still own more S&W than glocks and like the lifetime warranty because, I am a lazy consumer.)
10-20 years ago people were saying america is going down hill because our guns were made of plastic and ONLY American made Steel handguns like 1911's were in one man's opinion the best option.
A gun that meets the user's requirements and does so at reasonable cost, high reliability and minimal maintenance cost.
Glocks work for Law enforcement and now parts of US military. Are simple to maintain and don't require returns to the factory but can be fixed by armorers and Glock certified armorers anywhere.
S&W requires return to the factory and limits some parts.
Glock wins. (Note I still own more S&W than glocks and like the lifetime warranty because, I am a lazy consumer.)
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Arik
Member
Colt had more problems than just failure to develop innovative products. Colt hasn't been family owned for a 100 years. It's been bought and resold by corporations who's sole purpose is to take as much money out of the company as possible and sell the leftovers. With each resale the company has managed to not dissolve but barely exist. At one point the rights to build were sold separately for the company which caused Colt the manufacturer to pay for the rights to build the firearms they've been building. It's a lot more convoluted than just not being innovative and relying on gov contracts
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Sounds a lot like S&W, but S&W has come out with new and innovative products over the years. Some were more successful than others, yet they are still thriving. I'm old enough to remember Colt's innovations, like the Double Eagle and All American 2000. I suppose that was the best they could do. I think Glock is resting on his laurels (like Colt). I think that Gaston was counting on brand recognition to get the military contract instead of trying to meet specs. If they stay with what they have, the parade will pass them by.
Arik
Member
Eh....yes and no. S&W was bought by other companies to add to the parent company's overall portfolio and obviously to make money. Where as Colt was sold to corporations who specialize in taking companies apart for as much money as possible. In simpler terms they are the junk yard and Colt is the junk car being sold piece by piece to make more profit. The parts are worth more then the company as a whole which is why at one point the rights were sold off then the Colt was sold off to a different corporation that does the same thing. The previous corporation sold the rights separate from the company and made more money then selling as one.
Glock actually did meet gov specs. In the recent Sig/Glock military trials it came down to Sig dropping the price to cost. Sig is selling their guns at cost. There may be some profit on the back end with parts, mags and rebuilds but as of now Sig is braking even on the sale of firearms.
Aside from that Glock is already used by the military just not universally. Every time theres a military procurement program they come in in the top when it comes to function. The last one was Sig simply outbidding on the price with similar function results. Before that was their lack of manual safety but that MHS was dropped altogether
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Just a little info regarding gun sales..much of the info we get about how many Glocks are sold is at glock forums and by people that grossly over blow everything about Glocks....I've heard guys say glock sells millions of of guns in the US. the truth is in 2016 Glock sales were 252 thousand guns all models....S&W sold 990 thousand handguns all models and Ruger sold 770 thousand handguns all models...the ATF is always 1 year behind listing sales for reasons of not effecting the marketplace.
These numbers are derived from ATF GUN registrations and as we know all gun sales have to be reported through the FEDS. Glock comes in total gun sales 9 th...Ruger comes in no. 1 @ 1million 668 thousand total sales and S&W comes in at no. 2 @
1 million 474 thousand total sales. S&W and Ruger totals are rifles and handguns
This tells me Glock sells no where near the amount of guns they are reputed to sell.. Glock guns are no threat to S&W or Ruger. This doesn't mean Glock isn't a decent gun it's just to put things straight....
I no longer have Glocks...I have S&W, CZ'S, Sigs and a Walther..
I sold many S&W's many years ago when I left collecting for 10 years BIG MISTAKE but whats gone is gone now I'm back again..
These numbers are derived from ATF GUN registrations and as we know all gun sales have to be reported through the FEDS. Glock comes in total gun sales 9 th...Ruger comes in no. 1 @ 1million 668 thousand total sales and S&W comes in at no. 2 @
1 million 474 thousand total sales. S&W and Ruger totals are rifles and handguns
This tells me Glock sells no where near the amount of guns they are reputed to sell.. Glock guns are no threat to S&W or Ruger. This doesn't mean Glock isn't a decent gun it's just to put things straight....
I no longer have Glocks...I have S&W, CZ'S, Sigs and a Walther..
I sold many S&W's many years ago when I left collecting for 10 years BIG MISTAKE but whats gone is gone now I'm back again..
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What about worldwide? I don't think you'll find too many Ruger's and S&W's in the holsters of military and police around the globe compared with Glock.
What does that matter these are numbers that can be proved facts in the US.....who knows what anyone sells world wide and frankly I don't care I was just tired of hearing ridicules claims over and over about Glocks, so these numbers put things in perspective..
I think Glocks are decent pistols but in no way the best ever (the new m&p 2.0 is a better gun plus my CZ's are better guns and my Sigs are better) based on they sell so many they don't sell what they lead you to believe they do.
Plus S&W, Ruger, CZ, Sig Sauer plus many more companies, are real gun companies that make full lines of guns rifles, pistols and revolvers. not just one gun......my .02
What ridiculous claims? It's not hard to verify what military and police here and worldwide use as their service pistols. Same with PD's here, the FBI, Spec Ops units and the majority of prolific defensive shooting instructors.
I could care less what the average civilian buys. Ruger's biggest seller is the LCP. The average gun buyer is untrained and uneducated and a great many of them simply go with the smallest and cheapest when picking out a handgun for personal defense. I'm much more interested in what knowledgable defensive shooting instructors and well trained individuals who put their lives on the line on a regular basis choose, and in that context, Glock is the choice of the majority.
Arik
Member
All I want is ONE gun. ONE solid build reliable gun. No need for a line up. Make one and make it well. I loved Sug when they made only one gun. I'll take an old West German 226 over anything they make now. An old Glock over anything new. CZ75? Meh it works thats all it has to do but I'll take a USP over that any day. Ruger, Remington and the rest can make all the mediocre guns they want.
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Arik
Member
Better reply then mine
I stopped giving advice to friends. They would ask about a specific style of gun they wanted and id give them a few options. A few weeks later they come back with something completely different and almost always sub par. When I ask why they picked that one the reply is always...."well the store recommend it and it was cheap!". Gun bought simply on price. No other thought went into it. That's who "the whole lineup" is made for.
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Telecaster
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First time I’ve heard Ruger called mediocre.
