M2.0 Really Challenging Glock?

[S&W Rover]

The ATF publishes stats on guns produced in the US and guns brought into the U.S. under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

For 2016, ATF's interim report (showing imports only) reported 1,318,204 handguns imported from Austria. Although Glock makes guns in Smyrna, GA, I presume most of these 1,318,204 handguns imported from Austria were Glocks (I guess some would be Steyr's, too -- but not many). This drives the numbers up a lot of the total quoted earlier in this thread, which apparently is just Glocks made in the USA. See https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/firearms-commerce-united-states-annual-statistical-update-2017/download

For 2015, the last year for which made-in-USA numbers have been reported, Glock manufactured 216,616 handguns in the US. See https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/afmer-2015-final/download

The production totals are fascinating. Who'd have thought "Southern Die Casting" made 91,453 handguns; or "Heritage Manufacturing" made 163,933 handguns; or "Cobra Manufacturing" made 39,493; or "Arms Technology" made 59,320; or "Strassels Machine Inc." made 86,800; or "Jimenez Arms" made 45,328. All of these exceed the number of handguns made by the far better-known FN America (32,749).

Caution reading the numbers, though - some companies (like Ruger and Sig-Sauer) have several separate listings based on factories in different locations, so don't look at just one line for the total from these companies.

 

[Arik]

Arik, you seem angry. Or, is it because of some of the responses here are trivial, make no sense, juvenile?

Not angry at all. Shocker said that their sales are based on marketing and not performance. I simply want to know what his idea of performance is because there is nothing but data upon data of Glock's performance. From Militaries to FBI to people doing their own testing. It's probably the most tested and abused firearm yet some people assume that if anyone is buying it's because of marketing! In cases like this I usually find that "performance" = looks!

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[Muss Muggins]

Not angry at all. Shocker said that their sales are based on marketing and not performance. I simply want to know what his idea of performance is because there is nothing but data upon data of Glock's performance. From Militaries to FBI to people doing their own testing. It's probably the most tested and abused firearm yet some people assume that if anyone is buying it's because of marketing! In cases like this I usually find that "performance" = looks!

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It's both. The department I started my career with just completed at least their fourth department wide Glock replacement in 25 years. Not a huge place, but probably close to 100 pistols most recently. They started with the various .40 S&W pistols, changed those out a couple times as the generations came out, and just changed to the various 9mm pistols. You don't do that with the same manufacturer unless the pistols perform, and you can't afford it unless you get a great deal from the manufacturer. That's what Glock does. The pistol works, and they make you an offer you can't refuse . . .

 

[stavey]

Bottom line if you are a gangster or carry a glock for your job . I understand your being on the glock bandwagon. If you are an educated consumer go to a gun store and set a glock next to anything really. You will see the glock is a cheaply made to be MASS produced firearm. No offense. I have had glocks but in gen 5 if they won't even pony up for steel sights. What does that say about there business model ? -keep itvas cheap as possible- You could close this topic now the glock fan boys are the 1911 crowd of the years back. The 1911 is a relic nowadays and the glock isn't far behind. I don't see nearly as many glocks as I used to at the range. Really who cares there all fun to shoot.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Duly noted . . .

Bottom line if you are a gangster or carry a glock for your job . I understand your being on the glock bandwagon. If you are an educated consumer go to a gun store and set a glock next to anything really. You will see the glock is a cheaply made to be MASS produced firearm. No offense. I have had glocks but in gen 5 if they won't even pony up for steel sights. What does that say about there business model ? -keep itvas cheap as possible- You could close this topic now the glock fan boys are the 1911 crowd of the years back. The 1911 is a relic nowadays and the glock isn't far behind. I don't see nearly as many glocks as I used to at the range. Really who cares there all fun to shoot.

 

[Watchdog]

The talk is our M2.0 pistols are seriously challenging Glocks popularity.

Nothing Smith & Wesson does will cause Glock to even bat an eye.

 

[Rastoff]

The 1911 is a relic nowadays and the glock isn't far behind.

And there it is. Because you don't like it, it's substandard and cheaply made. Are you going to Asia and tell them to stop using chop sticks as well? I mean, their design is very old so, they must not be as good, right?

Nothing wrong with the Glock design. It's not cheaply made. It's made, like every other gun on the market; to turn a profit and still be a quality product. Glock has included plastic sights on every gun since at least Gen 3. Nothing wrong with those sights. They work.

 

[Watchdog]

You could close this topic now the glock fan boys are the 1911 crowd of the years back. The 1911 is a relic nowadays and the glock isn't far behind.

Best laugh I've had all day.

 

[Arik]

Bottom line if you are a gangster or carry a glock for your job . I understand your being on the glock bandwagon. If you are an educated consumer go to a gun store and set a glock next to anything really. You will see the glock is a cheaply made to be MASS produced firearm. No offense. I have had glocks but in gen 5 if they won't even pony up for steel sights. What does that say about there business model ? -keep itvas cheap as possible- You could close this topic now the glock fan boys are the 1911 crowd of the years back. The 1911 is a relic nowadays and the glock isn't far behind. I don't see nearly as many glocks as I used to at the range. Really who cares there all fun to shoot.

People change sights out anyway (on just about every firearm) so why bother. I change sights out regardless of their materials because I add night sights. It can be plastic, steel, aluminum, gold... if it's the standard 3 dot white sights I toss them. If they were a new company or new model I would agree but based on their track record I don't care if they made internals out of recycled printer paper. This isn't a Glock thing, it goes for any manufacturer.

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[okiegtrider]

Roger that.
Stand down men. Return tin foil hats to armory and await further instructions.
That is all.

You can do what you want Cajun. I'm remaining vigilant. Clearly the sky is falling and Glocks are the reason why.

 

[fallhunter]

Equal? You seem to think Glocks are "equal" with or better than the M&P, but I think the M&P is far superior. Like I said, I don't hate Glocks, but the M&P has far better ergonomics, and it's better built. My full-size has over 1,000 rounds through it with zero malfunctions, as in 100% perfect reliability. The Shield 45 is relatively new and has a few things to iron out with the mags, but as for Shields, they're already leading the pack for personal carry guns, for one simple reason: owners love them, often going back to buy another, and another.

Look, Police and other agencies don't make my decisions. You realize gov-think isn't always the gold standard for best quality, right? Do you really think Dodge Chargers and Chevy Tahoes are the best vehicles because cops and other gov agents use them? I don't care if every cop on the planet uses a Glock (they don't by the way) – that just means Glock is relying heavily on those channels for contract sales, which doesn't always work out real well for the future of a gun business. Just because Peter Strzok has a Glock, that's still no reason to buy something that feels like a plastic brick in MY hand. Well, maybe it is for you, but I don't care.

Last time I checked, Block didn't even offer buyers the choice of a safety, so it's obvious the manufacturer is tone deaf to what consumers want; typical European mindset—they're out of touch with little or no innovation, and probably in a rut they will never climb out of. It sounds like you love them and I think that's cool, but to me they are dinosaurs, and that's probably why millions of gun owners have moved past the Glock age.

Hey listen, no offense—if you think it's the best weapon for you, then stick with 'em. Heck, I think AK-47's are kinda cool too, I just don't go around pretending they're the best gun for everybody.

The Glock has the track record. However, the two are are almost one in the same. Just a different take down lever and grip texture. Other than that, its comparing apples to apples. I am American, and I choose a Glock.

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[Practical]

I've never fired one, but they are

Any brand whose reputation includes the phrase "built like a tank" can't also be called "mediocre."

Ruger's are built extra heavy probably because they are cast.

I like Ruger 22s and ironically the far end of the spectrum Redhawks and SuperRedHawks.

The GP-100 until this year really did not compete in my personal estimation to the S&W 686 or 686 Plus models doing nothing really better.

The triggers on the GP-100 are better in the store samples I have handled.

I think Ruger's were overbuilt but that is NOT true for all the models they have built over the years. I think rugers being overbuilt will be LESS true in the future as they shed costs.

 

[okiegtrider]

This thread is so awesome.

 

[Mahalo_.32]

Its all about personal preference........

I own M&P and GLOCK I want another 1911
Personally S&W stepped up to the plate with bases loaded and knocked it out of the park.

 

[Cheapskait]

The Glock is a wonder of design and manufacture. Simplicity and durability combined with ease of manufacture. One of the most cheaply made service caliber pistols (~$75 each) ever made, is the weapon of choice for military & police, , forces around the world.

I just don't like the grip angle.

 

[davemercer]

What does Glock have over other manufactures . Huge after market for parts . Easy tear down past field stripping . I do not own a Glock but from those 2 pluses seems like a good platform . I have shot Glocks and they seemed reasonably accurate to me . I like my M&P's just wish they had a better after market like Glock .

I agree, especially concerning parts availability. I have been carrying a G26 for some time, but recently purchased an M&P 9c. Have yet to fire with cold weather but impressed with the grip options and especially shorter trigger reach.

But in researching parts sources, esp OEM parts it is a whole different ball game than with Glock. I like to be able to do preventive maintenance on my firearms and if I fail in that and some small part does break be able to replace part myself rather than ship off and wait one or two months. Not to say that S&W lifetime warranty is not great, it is esp for major parts breakage.

I think I could learn to replace parts on M&P pretty quickly, but agree will never by like Glock. But again big deal with me is parts availability as every firearm has some weak points that must be watched. And while Glock is not much of a direct supplier of parts to civilian market there are a lot of great suppliers eg, glock parts, glockmeister. lone wolf, top gun supply. Rare you can not find everything you need.

And this "resource" of after market parts suppliers makes Glock more desirable and it cost Glock nothing. S&W should learn from the example.

 

[Arik]

I agree, especially concerning parts availability. I have been carrying a G26 for some time, but recently purchased an M&P 9c. Have yet to fire with cold weather but impressed with the grip options and especially shorter trigger reach.

But in researching parts sources, esp OEM parts it is a whole different ball game than with Glock. I like to be able to do preventive maintenance on my firearms and if I fail in that and some small part does break be able to replace part myself rather than ship off and wait one or two months. Not to say that S&W lifetime warranty is not great, it is esp for major parts breakage.

I think I could learn to replace parts on M&P pretty quickly, but agree will never by like Glock. But again big deal with me is parts availability as every firearm has some weak points that must be watched. And while Glock is not much of a direct supplier of parts to civilian market there are a lot of great suppliers eg, glock parts, glockmeister. lone wolf, top gun supply. Rare you can not find everything you need.

And this "resource" of after market parts suppliers makes Glock more desirable and it cost Glock nothing. S&W should learn from the example.

I'm sure that will catch up especially by the time you fire enough ammo to need maintenance

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[Muss Muggins]

I guess I'm too busy to run around replacing perfectly good parts on a whim. Thankfully, the pistols I shoot all the time don't seem to break much at all. I always wonder what y'all fellas are doin' to them things that you're always looking for parts that in 30 years I've never seen break. Somebody on another thread wanted a spare striker assembly in anticipation of his breaking. I guess thoughts like that are what keep the economy moving. More power to ya' . . .

 

[BAM-BAM]

First we had the Colt SAA in 1872..................

Then the S&W .38special.... 1899 ..... later known as the Model 10

Colt 1911....................

Then the Wonder 9...............

morphed into the Glock 17/19...............

Someday something better/cheaper/lighter will come along and replace the Glock as "King of the Police Hill"

If we all liked the same 'stuff" what a boring world...... full of unattractive women with the "wrong color" hair.


I've tried Glocks 19s and 26s ...... not my cup of tea...... I'm a 3rd Gen Smith fan; 3913s and 6906s have met my concealed carry auto needs for the last 27 years......like the feel and size of the new M&P Compact...... but don't see "enough" reason to change.

Maybe when "it" can be set to stun!!!!!!!



Edit: "parts" if folks quit changing their gun every year....... they could afford to have a "back up" to their primary carry.

 

[creekman]

I don’t have a .45 M&P. but I have four 9mm 2.0’s, and they are replacing my Glocks as my carry, bedside, and “go to “ pistols.

Skip

with the double stack, 4" barrel, and wt....it still works well as carry gun? I'm thinking of getting one. thanks