OP
gubber7181
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 8
Yeah I was watching some videos on the wadcutters. It seems like there pretty decent.
Model 38 question
- Thread starter gubber7181
- Start date
Yeah I was watching some videos on the wadcutters. It seems like there pretty decent.
Your model 38 has an alloy frame same as the 12 and 37 - actually identical to the 37 expect for the hammer shroud. Any extra velocity you would gain with +P will be negligible in your 2” gun. The WW 158 HP your relative spoke of is a good round. I actually carry it in my models 37 and 642.
Jim Watson
Member
Unfortunately, all you can get now is Midrange Wadcutters, listed 710-750 fps, usually less in a 2" revolver, or the alleged standard pressure high performance wadcutter from Buffalo Bore at 860 in a 2", over 1000 in a 4".
I don't know of anybody making the old Peters Service Wadcutter, 860 fps in a 6" barrel. Less in a short barrel but more than midrange and not as hard a kicker as the BB. Too bad. Easily handloaded if you want to.
I don't know of anybody making the old Peters Service Wadcutter, 860 fps in a 6" barrel. Less in a short barrel but more than midrange and not as hard a kicker as the BB. Too bad. Easily handloaded if you want to.
Long Post Warning. Read at your own risk!
Greetings and congratulations on your new revolver!
Long post warning!
Please correct me anyone. I hope for and welcome correction though I may sound like I think I know what I am talking about. Thanks!
I love my Model 38!
(That statement means flat nothing as I love every smith, so...)
You may have heard all the rumors about frame cracking with the Airweight pistols, and I want to set your mind at ease. I researched the issue extensively and learned an awful lot about how and why gun people come to believe unsupported statements about guns, but that is another post for another day.
You will hear that a certain frame crack happens an awful lot with the Model 38, but I could never get any reliable data or anything more than some interesting occasional anecdotes. There is a brother on our forum here who posted in some detail about his M38 frame crack. I have similar difficulty researching un-commanded discharges with the Sig P320, and Glock 10mm pistols exploding because of an "unsupported chamber".
If something is happening often enough to be a concern, then we ought to be able to explain why from specifics of the design and operation of the tool. If we can understand correctly, we can modify training and maintenance to alleviate the concern. The science ought to explain it and it ought to be repeatable.
The questionable usual explanations:
-Over torquing the barrel? S&W did find that for some undisclosed number of guns during a certain period, the early 80's, they had some assembler(s) doing that and they stopped it. You should check your gun. It will be obvious if the front sight is not straight up and down. There is no fix for it. Just carry it and shoot it and when it cracks get another! Nobody proved that the cracked Airweights actually did have an over torqued barrel.
-It is not meant to be shot? I would love to see a statement from S&W saying that they are deliberately selling a gun with which you cannot practice. I did confirm that most of them sit in the drawer for decades without ever being shot (just like every other gun).
- Shooting hot ammo? Mas Ayoob had a Model 38, and he shot so many +p rounds through it that he sent it twice to a gunsmith to have the frame straightened! No cracks ever, but I can explain below.
-There are so many of them? The idea is that all guns fail but we don't care, or we don't pay attention until we own one of them. There are so many of these little guns out there that when one of them cracks we all sit up and pay attention. Just like buying a Subaru All Wheel Drive, now you see them everywhere. If you Google "handgun frame cracks" you will see a plethora of articles involving every make and every model gun.
Because of the very consistent appearance in the photos of these cracks, I came to the conclusion that there is a better theory.
The Theory:
Smith made the little Bodyguard Airweight with a steel barrel and cylinder on an aluminum frame. It is supposed to make it stronger but creates our problem in that the aluminum alloy handles heat expansion differently than steel does. Aluminum dissipates heat 15 times faster than steel. The barrel collar is shrinking while the barrel is still fat. The frame pops open just like the buttons on your shirt when you devour too much beer and pizza at once. I learned this from someone who spoke to a lady design engineer in the employ of S&W, or so he said, who knows. Sorry I never got her name.
The Work Around Strategies:
-Add a little scandium to the frame alloy. Works beautifully! Shoot yours until it cracks, then buy a 340PD.
-Practice with the all-steel M49 but carry the M38. Great idea, a reason to buy another gun. Maybe even the wife will accept this excuse!
-Limit to one cylinder of shooting at a time. This is what Mas does. He pulls it from his left pocket and runs it empty, 5 rounds, then drops it and pulls his sidearm with his other hand. He never experienced the crack because he never got the gun very hot shooting this way. He never deliberately limited his shooting mind you, rather he had a practice regimen which worked for him and the little gun never let him down. Your first cold run is the only one that counts anyway.
-Keep shooting it after it cracks. Oh horrors! BrianD, how could you?! One writer noticed his crack while cleaning it. He had no way to know how many rounds ago it cracked because it still shot just great. He then put another 100 rounds through it by the time he wrote his post :-o He thought the group was maybe not as tight as before. (!?) You do this at your own risk. I am not a doctor and nothing I write here is intended to be taken as medical advice. Please consult your own shooting professional before attempting, etc. etc.
-Keep carrying it after it cracks? Well OK just don't practice with it. It probably will still do the job for one more cylinder. There are no reported cracks from dry fire practice.
I will look forward to anyone's comments and corrections.
Kind Regards!
BrianD
Greetings and congratulations on your new revolver!
Long post warning!
Please correct me anyone. I hope for and welcome correction though I may sound like I think I know what I am talking about. Thanks!
I love my Model 38!
(That statement means flat nothing as I love every smith, so...)
You may have heard all the rumors about frame cracking with the Airweight pistols, and I want to set your mind at ease. I researched the issue extensively and learned an awful lot about how and why gun people come to believe unsupported statements about guns, but that is another post for another day.
You will hear that a certain frame crack happens an awful lot with the Model 38, but I could never get any reliable data or anything more than some interesting occasional anecdotes. There is a brother on our forum here who posted in some detail about his M38 frame crack. I have similar difficulty researching un-commanded discharges with the Sig P320, and Glock 10mm pistols exploding because of an "unsupported chamber".
If something is happening often enough to be a concern, then we ought to be able to explain why from specifics of the design and operation of the tool. If we can understand correctly, we can modify training and maintenance to alleviate the concern. The science ought to explain it and it ought to be repeatable.
The questionable usual explanations:
-Over torquing the barrel? S&W did find that for some undisclosed number of guns during a certain period, the early 80's, they had some assembler(s) doing that and they stopped it. You should check your gun. It will be obvious if the front sight is not straight up and down. There is no fix for it. Just carry it and shoot it and when it cracks get another! Nobody proved that the cracked Airweights actually did have an over torqued barrel.
-It is not meant to be shot? I would love to see a statement from S&W saying that they are deliberately selling a gun with which you cannot practice. I did confirm that most of them sit in the drawer for decades without ever being shot (just like every other gun).
- Shooting hot ammo? Mas Ayoob had a Model 38, and he shot so many +p rounds through it that he sent it twice to a gunsmith to have the frame straightened! No cracks ever, but I can explain below.
-There are so many of them? The idea is that all guns fail but we don't care, or we don't pay attention until we own one of them. There are so many of these little guns out there that when one of them cracks we all sit up and pay attention. Just like buying a Subaru All Wheel Drive, now you see them everywhere. If you Google "handgun frame cracks" you will see a plethora of articles involving every make and every model gun.
Because of the very consistent appearance in the photos of these cracks, I came to the conclusion that there is a better theory.
The Theory:
Smith made the little Bodyguard Airweight with a steel barrel and cylinder on an aluminum frame. It is supposed to make it stronger but creates our problem in that the aluminum alloy handles heat expansion differently than steel does. Aluminum dissipates heat 15 times faster than steel. The barrel collar is shrinking while the barrel is still fat. The frame pops open just like the buttons on your shirt when you devour too much beer and pizza at once. I learned this from someone who spoke to a lady design engineer in the employ of S&W, or so he said, who knows. Sorry I never got her name.
The Work Around Strategies:
-Add a little scandium to the frame alloy. Works beautifully! Shoot yours until it cracks, then buy a 340PD.
-Practice with the all-steel M49 but carry the M38. Great idea, a reason to buy another gun. Maybe even the wife will accept this excuse!
-Limit to one cylinder of shooting at a time. This is what Mas does. He pulls it from his left pocket and runs it empty, 5 rounds, then drops it and pulls his sidearm with his other hand. He never experienced the crack because he never got the gun very hot shooting this way. He never deliberately limited his shooting mind you, rather he had a practice regimen which worked for him and the little gun never let him down. Your first cold run is the only one that counts anyway.
-Keep shooting it after it cracks. Oh horrors! BrianD, how could you?! One writer noticed his crack while cleaning it. He had no way to know how many rounds ago it cracked because it still shot just great. He then put another 100 rounds through it by the time he wrote his post :-o He thought the group was maybe not as tight as before. (!?) You do this at your own risk. I am not a doctor and nothing I write here is intended to be taken as medical advice. Please consult your own shooting professional before attempting, etc. etc.
-Keep carrying it after it cracks? Well OK just don't practice with it. It probably will still do the job for one more cylinder. There are no reported cracks from dry fire practice.
I will look forward to anyone's comments and corrections.
Kind Regards!
BrianD
Attachments
Model19man
Member
I had no idea - I only use WW full wadcutters in my Model 37. They no longer make them but I got two boxes at a gun show for cheap years ago. They work very well.
Attachments
No arguments here Brian. I still only shoot standard pressure rounds from mine. With the long list of police officers, surgeons, medical examiners and ballistic gel testers claiming that the lowly wadcutter is a highly effective self defense round, I see no reason to look elsewhere except for the reload.
It is very like the old fashion 158 grain +P lead, semi-wadcutter hollow point. It compares very favorably to any of the more modern projectiles from a 3" or longer barrel. It is what is loaded in the 4" K Frame sitting on the nightstand.
It is very like the old fashion 158 grain +P lead, semi-wadcutter hollow point. It compares very favorably to any of the more modern projectiles from a 3" or longer barrel. It is what is loaded in the 4" K Frame sitting on the nightstand.
I had an old nickel plated Model 49 that I carried with wadcutters; I handloaded hollow based wadcutters backwards. I don't know if that mattered at all, but those cartridges sure looked wicked. They were backed up by two reloads of standard pressure hollow points. As already stated, the wadcutters are almost impossible to quickly reload.
I sold that gun when I switched to 9mm for carry. That was a mistake. I'd love to have it back.
One trick I was told by an old-timer was, if carrying a speed strip, load it with 2 space 3. The spacing made it a little easier to load two cartridges at a time, rather than in singles. (I liked the strips since they were less noticeable than round speed loaders.)
I sold that gun when I switched to 9mm for carry. That was a mistake. I'd love to have it back.
One trick I was told by an old-timer was, if carrying a speed strip, load it with 2 space 3. The spacing made it a little easier to load two cartridges at a time, rather than in singles. (I liked the strips since they were less noticeable than round speed loaders.)
Last edited:
If you are worried your pocket carry gun will be harmed by hot ammo,
dont carry that gun, or shoot it and throw the gun away.
dont carry that gun, or shoot it and throw the gun away.
OP
gubber7181
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 8
No I actually have no intention of using hot loads, I just wanted to know the appropriate ammo for it being its an older modal. Iv actually read up quite a bit on the whole do or dont use +P in these. Iv never carried a snub nose. Im jus going to buy some standard pressure wad cutters.
If I wanted to shoot hot loads id just buy another 9mm.
Last edited:
Now you are talking. Carry a 9MM ASP.
I have a nickel mdl. 38. It's alloy framed, steel cylinder and barrel. It says Airweight on the barrel. I assume your blued one does too. I shoot wadcutters in mine as well. I found that Winchester 110gr Silvertips are also a good short barrel load, and not +P. When I carry wadcutters, I'm using Magtech 148gr. It's just a little hotter than the wadcutter handloads I make for practice.
OP
gubber7181
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 8
This .38 is meant for a short term carry piece till I can get the money togther for a good 9mm. I got a killer deal on it and iv always wanted a snubby but I would only get a SW.
SuperMan
Member
Bought a 60s vintage Model 42 in about 1978...carried that gun as an on-duty BUG for 15 years... When I went to sell it the crack under the barrel was found... Have no clue if it was there when I bought it or when it occurred but never had a problem.
Got a MSP BUG from the estate of a friend...a Model 38 with a stainless cylinder. It had been refinished by a friend of his with Brownell's Alumahide...it was also cracked...have shot it and zero issues...
Have read a lot of stories about cracked frames but not a word about a barrel ever leaving a gun because of it...
Bob
Got a MSP BUG from the estate of a friend...a Model 38 with a stainless cylinder. It had been refinished by a friend of his with Brownell's Alumahide...it was also cracked...have shot it and zero issues...
Have read a lot of stories about cracked frames but not a word about a barrel ever leaving a gun because of it...
Bob
Last edited:
OP
gubber7181
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 8
Would any J frame holster fit this pistol or are they model specific?
Any holster. All snubby J-frames are the same size. The only difference might be hand-filling grips and holsters that grab just below the trigger guard.
Holsters with a thumb snap designed to go over the back of an exposed hammer will not work. However, any that are the "scabbard" type work great. There are some very nice holsters made by Simply Rugged, Desantis, 1791 Gunleather, and many more. If you are after a pocket holster I recommend Bob Mika.
My first & only delf-defense shooting involved shooting into a car's windshield & door glass. Yes, I scored a disabling hit.
At no time since then did I ever think to myself, "I wish I had used a soft lead, slow moving bullet instead."
In self-defense, one does not prepare for what we THINK might happen. We prepare for ANYTHING that might happen. Life events don't always go as planned, gents. Plan accordingly.
My .o2
shil
Member
My Model 38 is loaded with Federal 125gr Nyclad hollowpoints, of which I still have a jealously-guarded supply. Practice is fine with standard store-bought 130s or handloaded cast.
Gunsite hosts the revolver round up annually in November. The guys that run it are rabid revolver fans, and have used them in gunfights. For alloy frame revolvers ( backed up by gel tests) they say wadcutters are the answer. Several companies offer a slightly higher velocity wadcutter that is still not plus p ( Georgia arms of my memory serves)
Absolute rule with snub
If it expands it will not penetrate
If it penetrates it will not expand
End of story
Absolute rule with snub
If it expands it will not penetrate
If it penetrates it will not expand
End of story
