More people carrying?

[John Patrick]

The country was a much safer and civil place when there was only one CC state...Vermont. New Hampshire and Maine joining the club was acceptable, but the rest of the country is just too much of a mess to allow people with room temperature IQ's to walk around armed. Stringent training, permitting and back ground checks should be the norm for most of the country.

Laws limiting law abiding citizens limit only law abiding citizens. They do not limit the lawless.

But, more importantly, the 2A is the ultimate controlling law. If you don't like the 2A, push for a Constitutional Convention!

 

[John Patrick]

You are correct. I had the best 50 round target in the class and I did it with my 645.

The required background check increased the likelihood I did not have any disqualifying convictions, which I believe is a good thing. There are folks in the general population who have demonstrated they are at a very high risk of reckless behavior if they are armed.

I also treasure the second amendment and respect other opinions on how to enforce it. The appropriate boundaries are elusive but I do not think that means any weapon for any person at anytime. But I listen to other opinions.

The "problem" is boundaries.

But let's look at other Bill of Rights enumerated Constitutional rights.

2A rights are there, fundamental to the Constitutional rights of citizens. As are free speech, exercise of religion…

Any impediment to a law abiding citizen's right to any enumerated Constitutional right is not only UnConstitional, it's just plain wrong.

And then there are the carry permit fees. Indistinguishable from a poll tax (which is UnConstitutional.)

I think, as the six SCOTUS Justices do, that the right of a law abiding citizen to carry a firearm should not be limited to what some . gov employee thinks is an appropriate reason.

ETA:

 

[Luke Duke]

In Az I saw a lot of open carry . Go into Walmart . I saw a lady's that had to be 75 yrs old open carrying a 1911 in a shoulder holster and I bet she knew how to use it . It was not unusual to see 6 - or more people open carrying . I was one of them . No body got alarmed , in fact I had people come up to me and thank me for open carrying . Said they felt more protected . Once was a retired leo that said he had carried for over 35 yrs and was glad he didn't have to carry anymore but was glad I was carrying . This was in Walmart in a small town in Az . Regards Paul

Me and my wife lived in Cottonwood AZ. for 6 years. Always seen people open carry. Alot of people open carry. Figured I might as well too. I packed around my GP100 and didn't think twice about it. I've got a concealed permit now. And don't even worry about carrying an N-Frame 4" in the winter here in CO. as long as its covered up abit.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Call your first witness . . .

The "problem" is boundaries.

But let's look at other Bill of Rights enumerated Constitutional rights.

2A rights are there, fundamental to the Constitutional rights of citizens. As are free speech, exercise of religion…

Any impediment to a law abiding citizen's right to any enumerated Constitutional right is not only UnConstitional, it's just plain wrong.

And then there are the carry permit fees. Indistinguishable from a poll tax (which is UnConstitutional.)

I think, as the six SCOTUS Justices do, that the right of a law abiding citizen to carry a firearm should not be limited to what some . gov employee thinks is an appropriate reason.

 

[Heinz]

So you are not opposed to the form 4473 requirements? And yes I do know what they are.

But they are a restriction on purchase, not on carry. And are you proposing that those same qualifications should apply to carrying a firearm or not?

If I inherited a firearm, I do not fill out a 4473 , and there is the face to face transfer of firearms by residents of the same state.

So should you be required to meet the 4473 questions in order to "possess" a firearm?

It ain't that simple

 

[Oldsalt66]

Gun laws don't eliminate guns, they only criminalize their possession.

 

[pawngal]

So you are not opposed to the form 4473 requirements? And yes I do know what they are.

But they are a restriction on purchase, not on carry. And are you proposing that those same qualifications should apply to carrying a firearm or not?

If I inherited a firearm, I do not fill out a 4473 , and there is the face to face transfer of firearms by residents of the same state.

So should you be required to meet the 4473 questions in order to "possess" a firearm?

It ain't that simple

Why shouldn't those requirements be applied to firearm ownership?
Felons are prohibited possession of firearms at the federal level.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I'm trying to do this math and it isn't working for me:

Twice the number of Americans were carrying handguns daily in 2019 compared to 2015, according to a new study published this month. 

Around 6,000 gun owners carried handguns every day in 2019, up from 3,000 in 2015, according to a study from the American Journal of Public Health published on Nov. 16.

Are they missing zeros? There are nearly 2 million concealed carry licensees in Texas. If only 1% carry daily that's 20,000 armed citizens. You KNOW that number is low for daily armed carry in Texas so I just do not understand the numbers. Did I miss a footnote that explains it?

Okay, this number of 3000 and 6000 is at least reasonable math in re "twice the number" but, still, it's ridiculously low.

The number of respondents to the online survey who said they had carried a gun in the last month also nearly doubled from 9 million to 16 million in 2015.

"Nearly doubled". Who writes this drivel? 17 million might be nearly doubled. 16 million is a nice percentage but it's not twice 9 million.

The OP wrote:

I think numbers are off, but who really knows.

Ya think?

 

[steelslaver]

The required background check increased the likelihood I did not have any disqualifying convictions, which I believe is a good thing. There are folks in the general population who have demonstrated they are at a very high risk of reckless behavior if they are armed.

So, you passed a NICS back ground check. So would someone who smokes pot everyday, has 6 misdemeanor thefts, 3 disturbing the peace convictions and 2 DUIs. Whooppeee.

When you qualified did you have to pass any kind of philological, intelligence, aptitude testing? How were you somehow separated from the, in your words " folks in the general population who have demonstrated they are at a very high risk of reckless behavior if they are armed"?

I have taken the NRA basic handgun safety course and it was both shorter and easier then the hunter safety course, which I passed at 12 and my step daughters did a couple years back. Whooppe do. If your average 12 year old can pass it it ain't all that much off a qualifier IMHO. I shot the center out of my target with using a 5 shot 3" 44 special and was told I could leave well before the rest of the class. But, how does that make me all that much safer than the woman who was new, but, learning with her 380 semi auto? It does not. To many situations, plus, her purpose, my purpose for wanting a permit come into play to make that call. Do I have more of a right to protect myself than her? More or less need?

Basically all having a permit proves is you went through the trouble of spending a few bucks and a day to get it. It does NOT prove you are more qualified, safer, more informed, more mentally stable or less of an idiot than the average Joe Blow gun owner. In fact I bet there are lots of non permit holding gun owners with far more on the ball mentally and safety wise than some permit holders.

 

[Muss Muggins]

If you read the actual survey/study, they started with a pool of 55,000 people, ended up with 6700 or so. Only about 4000 actually completed the whole survey. It was self selected participation, so only people who responded to the preliminary inquiries were involved. Take from that what you will . . .

I'm trying to do this math and it isn't working for me:



Are they missing zeros? There are nearly 2 million concealed carry licensees in Texas. If only 1% carry daily that's 20,000 armed citizens. You KNOW that number is low for daily armed carry in Texas so I just do not understand the numbers. Did I miss a footnote that explains it?

Okay, this number of 3000 and 6000 is at least reasonable math in re "twice the number" but, still, it's ridiculously low.



"Nearly doubled". Who writes this drivel? 17 million might be nearly doubled. 16 million is a nice percentage but it's not twice 9 million.

The OP wrote:



Ya think?

 

[ISCS Yoda]

If you read the actual survey/study, they started with a pool of 55,000 people, ended up with 6700 or so. Only about 4000 actually completed the whole survey. It was self selected participation, so only people who responded to the preliminary inquiries were involved. Take from that what you will . . .

So it's a flawed study. Got it. Appreciate you pointing that out. You can't extrapolate much there as far as I can tell with respect to the general population.

 

[steelslaver]

BTW

I am not singling out Heinz

I was trying to point out that it isn't that hard to pass a back ground check.

That it only takes an IQ slightly above room temprature to pass most of the courses.

People who don't have a clue generally won''t get and retain one in an 8 hour class. Look at the result with a huge percentage of them after 12 years of education.

It isn't so much that I wouldn't like to separate more of the chafe, it just how are you going to do it and not open up Pandora's box. A certain segment of society will not be satisfied until they disarm the public. I refuse to give them any tools to work with. Reasonable sounds so reasonable, until you start to trying to figure out just whose reasonable your gonna get.

Like I said is it my reasonable. Heinze's, Biku'ss, Everytown's, the Brady'ss, Gifford's, just who will it be and how likely is it they can grab the steering wheel. Some of them believe me owning a cap gun is unreasonable.

 

[ladder13]

In Az I saw a lot of open carry . Go into Walmart . I saw a lady's that had to be 75 yrs old open carrying a 1911 in a shoulder holster and I bet she knew how to use it . It was not unusual to see 6 - or more people open carrying . I was one of them . No body got alarmed , in fact I had people come up to me and thank me for open carrying . Said they felt more protected . Once was a retired leo that said he had carried for over 35 yrs and was glad he didn't have to carry anymore but was glad I was carrying . This was in Walmart in a small town in Az . Regards Paul

First OC I ever saw was in AZ over 30 years ago.

I am seeing OC more often in NC. I don't run and hide, shriek in horror, tell them to cover up, or make dumb comments.

It's none of my business what they do as OC has been legal here forever.

 

[Muss Muggins]

. . . You're the one the brought up police murders; incidentally, 24 police officers have been murdered by lawfully permitted concealed carriers. Law Enforcement Officers Killed By Concealed Carry Killers | VPC: Concealed Carry Killers

24 in 15 years, none since 2019. Try again . . .

 

[Bald1]

BTW

I am not singling out Heinz

I was trying to point out that it isn't that hard to pass a back ground check.

That it only takes an IQ slightly above room temprature to pass most of the courses.

People who don't have a clue generally won''t get and retain one in an 8 hour class. Look at the result with a huge percentage of them after 12 years of education.

It isn't so much that I wouldn't like to separate more of the chafe, it just how are you going to do it and not open up Pandora's box. A certain segment of society will not be satisfied until they disarm the public. I refuse to give them any tools to work with. Reasonable sounds so reasonable, until you start to trying to figure out just whose reasonable your gonna get.

Like I said is it my reasonable. Heinze's, Biku'ss, Everytown's, the Brady'ss, Gifford's, just who will it be and how likely is it they can grab the steering wheel. Some of them believe me owning a cap gun is unreasonable.

Could not agree more !!!!!

 

[biku324]

Florida again....

STUART, Fla. —

In a 911 call Saturday afternoon, Susan Hootman tells the dispatcher: "My husband just shot our neighbors and I think he killed them."

Hugh Hootman, 75, told detectives his downstairs neighbor Henry Wallace yelled at Hootman's wife Susan several days ago for leaving the shared laundry room's door open, and when he saw 81-year old Henry Wallace at the mailbox Saturday, Hootman told Henry he needed to apologize.

"The neighbor downstairs just the other day shouted at me and swore at me regarding the washer and dryer," Susan Hootman explained breathlessly to the dispatcher.

Hootman told detectives when Wallace tried to push past him without apologizing, "I lost my temper" and he pulled out his gun and shot him several times.

When Ginger Wallace, 81, ran outside to see what was going on and began yelling, Hootman told detectives he shot her twice.

The SWAT team arrived and took Hootman into custody.

Detectives say he said, "So sorry. I wish I could take it back."

According to deputies, Hootman has a concealed carry permit and kept his gun in his pocket for protection.

Florida man kills his neighbors